STN Security declares war on pilots
cptjns
Similar at LAX too, different rules for pax. re. x-ray and locked bags (or it was last time I flew out ) how the f**k are we supposed to know?
And I suppose every crook in the US has a key to one of those special TSA locks ? So easy to put a bomb in a bag for them, but yes, I did pack it myelf, thank you.
What a farce. ( UK word ? " absurd and pointless proceedings " )
......There are some 8 terminals at JFK......
And I suppose every crook in the US has a key to one of those special TSA locks ? So easy to put a bomb in a bag for them, but yes, I did pack it myelf, thank you.
What a farce. ( UK word ? " absurd and pointless proceedings " )
Coming back to the Stansted protesters and their funding here is an interesting article in today's Mail:-
Lush or not
Lush or not
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Romeo India Xray
A good point at the end of your last post. I have been thinking along those lines for a while now.
The only real way to change this madness is for crews to play these mindless morons at their own stupid game.
One would need to very careful but is there a way where your licence or ID card could become "contaminated" and the items be removed from you, therefore rendering you unable to go to work? Must be enough brains on here to think of something that is purely innocent. It would have to be attempted en mass of course.
It may sound unprofessional but I feel this is a safety issue that needs to be addressed before someone gets hurt. Crews have caused disruption over pay issues in the past, so why not on matters of safety?
A good point at the end of your last post. I have been thinking along those lines for a while now.
The only real way to change this madness is for crews to play these mindless morons at their own stupid game.
One would need to very careful but is there a way where your licence or ID card could become "contaminated" and the items be removed from you, therefore rendering you unable to go to work? Must be enough brains on here to think of something that is purely innocent. It would have to be attempted en mass of course.
It may sound unprofessional but I feel this is a safety issue that needs to be addressed before someone gets hurt. Crews have caused disruption over pay issues in the past, so why not on matters of safety?
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 14th Dec 2008 at 02:13.
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If you have any issue with security at any BAA airport then pass it on to CHIRP and they can add it to their ever growing list of security grievances at BAA airports. All credit to CHIRP since they seem to be slowly chipping away at this issue but their case can only be strengthened if you pass on your problems onto them. The uniform application of security procedures is piecemeal and non consistent at BAA airports and something needs to be done!
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Surely it the ultimate sanction at election time.....its around the corner remember....and its votes that count......how about a few large posters in say Lackey jackies (Home Office) and 'Buff' Hoon's (Transport) constituiencies and around the airports explaining the position? Taking up Billboard space can't be that expensive for a few unions to organise? Oh forgot they aren't on the side of the workers who pay their wages are they, but in the pockets of government.....roll on April 1st national no pass day!!
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doubleu-anker
One would need to very careful but is there a way where your licence or ID card could become "contaminated" and the items be removed from you, therefore rendering you unable to go to work?
I was thinking more along the lines of a safety audit whereby an indipendent safety observer views what crews have to go through and then appraises if this will have an effect on their stress levels. Post an outside observer at crew security stations and you will soon see securiy personnel pulling their socks up. If a crew is subjected to excessive stress through inconsistent rules and their aplication then the observer simply has the authority to refuse the crew permission to operate the flight.
This person should be someone with extensive industry knowledge (probably as a former/retired pilot), and enough in-depth knowledge of human factors to assess that a safety issue may result due to the stress created, then simply prevent the crew from operating the flight. There would be monumental changes in "security" and the way it is applied.
RIX
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I'm a non baa pass holder and so cannot work out my base edi until I get a pass however I can work out of stn until 01/09! If i'm positioning however I need a ticket! Missed 2 flights due to that!
Oh and yesterday I walked into a full blown argument between 2 security staff at vp9 about breaks whilst I waited!
The only consistancy about baa security is the inconsistancy!
Oh and yesterday I walked into a full blown argument between 2 security staff at vp9 about breaks whilst I waited!
The only consistancy about baa security is the inconsistancy!
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Why not just get a ticket and go through with pax? Ah? That would entail a 30 minute wait in the queue. You could queue jump in uniform, but then again no. "You'll have to go through crew control if in uniform. More than my job's worth etc. etc." But I'm not on duty, I'm positioning as pax and I have to travel in uniform, and I have a ticket. And if I wait in this queue I'll miss my flight and therefore the one I'm supposed to operate. The flight will be canelled, I'll not get paid and my company and I will sue you for loss of revenue & income.
I thought the politicians wanted to be at the centre of Europe. If they ground the a/c they will definately stay on the edge. The buck stops with the Minister of Transport, who-ever that is. The first time his flight is delayed or cancleed, things will change. Why not find out when they are flying and walk off in protest due to stress.
The protesters should be air crew, pilots and C/A's. They should be camped outside Parliament. If they are not prepared to fight for their right to work un harrassed, but accept that some whacky group of other protesters can distrupt their everyday lives, unjustifiably, then the world will implode quicker than expected. The best form of defence is sometimes attack.
Good luck from outside UK, thank God. Everyday something new confirms the reason I left.
I thought the politicians wanted to be at the centre of Europe. If they ground the a/c they will definately stay on the edge. The buck stops with the Minister of Transport, who-ever that is. The first time his flight is delayed or cancleed, things will change. Why not find out when they are flying and walk off in protest due to stress.
The protesters should be air crew, pilots and C/A's. They should be camped outside Parliament. If they are not prepared to fight for their right to work un harrassed, but accept that some whacky group of other protesters can distrupt their everyday lives, unjustifiably, then the world will implode quicker than expected. The best form of defence is sometimes attack.
Good luck from outside UK, thank God. Everyday something new confirms the reason I left.
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The buck stops with the Minister of Transport, who-ever that is. The first time his flight is delayed or cancleed, things will change. Why not find out when they are flying and walk off in protest due to stress.
How about, when you are positioning through STN, if possible, make sure that your ID is in your car at your base airport. Also make sure the only clothing you have is what you are wearing, your uniform. Next, you will be denied through both PAX and staff channels. Consequence, you call your company, but you were boarding with only 20 mins to spare and have now missed your flight.
I know this wouldn't work for everyone, but there have been 2 or 3 times for me this year when I could have pulled this stunt. It certainly would be likely to get attention!
RIX
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I have been through a few airports this week.
Here is the "standard security check" items I've endured:-
1. Jacket off, shoes off, computers out of bags, liquids out of bags, plus a body scan.
2. None of the above.
3. Jacket on, shoes on, computers out, liquids out, UMBRELLAS out (I kid you not - where the f*ck does it mention THAT in the security details?)
It drives you mad doesn't it?
Here is the "standard security check" items I've endured:-
1. Jacket off, shoes off, computers out of bags, liquids out of bags, plus a body scan.
2. None of the above.
3. Jacket on, shoes on, computers out, liquids out, UMBRELLAS out (I kid you not - where the f*ck does it mention THAT in the security details?)
It drives you mad doesn't it?
Why not just get a ticket and go through with pax? Ah?
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I agree that arguing with the Scottish food company rejects is mainly a waste of ones energy
McD only sounds Scottish - the are very USA and very litiginous.
Back to topic!
As a pax I can only say I feel for you guys and am happy to join any campaign you devise. (most Pax are on your side).
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Strange, I didn't know the words 'battered' and 'Mars bar'* were used in the same the same sentence until I visited Scotland. 
I can't remember the last time I've had to go through screening at STN but to be honest it doesn't sound any better or worse then the "security" at any other airport I've had the displeasure to encounter in the UK.
I think anyone who reads CHIRP's quarterly publication would agree with that. The CAA don't want us to file ASR's unless safety is DIRECTLY compromised (i.e. there is an actual incident)!
So I guess all of our years of professional experience, Human Factors training about breaking the error chain and using an open reporting system to target potentially fatal flaws in an operation/regulation count for absolutely nothing?
*Disclaimer: This word can be changed for any other food stuff when north of the Border.
I can't remember the last time I've had to go through screening at STN but to be honest it doesn't sound any better or worse then the "security" at any other airport I've had the displeasure to encounter in the UK.
Somehow I think the CAA might be on the same planet as these security people.
So I guess all of our years of professional experience, Human Factors training about breaking the error chain and using an open reporting system to target potentially fatal flaws in an operation/regulation count for absolutely nothing?
*Disclaimer: This word can be changed for any other food stuff when north of the Border.
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The suggestion that a few senior front bench MPs and Ministers should be delayed deliberately is interesting; unfortunately these guys have there own private airline and airports its called the RAF (used to be 32sqdn) and the airports are RAF Northolt or Brize Norton. You dont seriously think they would consider joining the Human Race and flying Commercial do you...
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Just a hypothetical situation of course;
Suppose you were checking in for a flight and you thought you smelt alcohol on the breath of one of the SS. Would that mean all the crew/passengers they had checked in would need to be re-screened in case anything had been missed? Would a thorough search of the airport be required? Imagine the chaos!
Suppose you were checking in for a flight and you thought you smelt alcohol on the breath of one of the SS. Would that mean all the crew/passengers they had checked in would need to be re-screened in case anything had been missed? Would a thorough search of the airport be required? Imagine the chaos!
Last edited by mona lot; 15th Dec 2008 at 15:08.
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STN Security Hassles
As an ex-Army Security Officer, I was always told that "Security Must Make Sense" - in some places it clearly doesn't and there is a total lack of consistency which irks everyone.
Making and airport/airfield 100% secure is impossible unless you applied methods so draconian that no-one would fly. Although following the recent incursion at STN perhaps some armed patrols on the perimeter could focus protesting minds. It would probably be more use for the MP5 toting members of Essex's Finest than posing in the terminal. I wonder what their rules of engagement are? I certainly don't want to be in a crowded Terminal when large quantities of 9mm ammunition start flying around to stop some gunman/bomber. I believe its called collateral damage!!
My own experience with STN, as SLF I add, was that my wife's handbag was searched and x-rayed four times because she was carrying both her and my spare sets of spectacles. She was not allowed to open the cases or the handbag (presumably more than their job was worth). On arrival at our destination, she wanted a cigarette. On opening her handbag she pulled out a box of Swan Vestas matches. These have been classified as DAC since Pontius was a student pilot.
If security made sense and operated on the KISS principle instead of maximum embuggerance, perhaps it would be more effective!!
Making and airport/airfield 100% secure is impossible unless you applied methods so draconian that no-one would fly. Although following the recent incursion at STN perhaps some armed patrols on the perimeter could focus protesting minds. It would probably be more use for the MP5 toting members of Essex's Finest than posing in the terminal. I wonder what their rules of engagement are? I certainly don't want to be in a crowded Terminal when large quantities of 9mm ammunition start flying around to stop some gunman/bomber. I believe its called collateral damage!!
My own experience with STN, as SLF I add, was that my wife's handbag was searched and x-rayed four times because she was carrying both her and my spare sets of spectacles. She was not allowed to open the cases or the handbag (presumably more than their job was worth). On arrival at our destination, she wanted a cigarette. On opening her handbag she pulled out a box of Swan Vestas matches. These have been classified as DAC since Pontius was a student pilot.
If security made sense and operated on the KISS principle instead of maximum embuggerance, perhaps it would be more effective!!
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Perhaps the way to bring this to the attention of the politicians is to do what our Ozzie friends did a few years ago when they had a problem and that was to refuse boarding to a politician. (I can't remember what excuse the Oz captains used but I seem to remember that it was effective)
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Hi Friends,
does anyone know if the 1/1/09 date has been postponed?
I still have a Landside pass w my crew licence and I'll be in STN just for the 1st of January.
In the case it'll be in force already, do you know what's the way to go airside? Have I to ask for a boarding card at check in and pass through the pax channel??
In this case I don't know if they allow me to pass with 2 trolley as I used to do when passing thorough the crew channel...
Thanks a lot! Happy Christmas!
does anyone know if the 1/1/09 date has been postponed?
I still have a Landside pass w my crew licence and I'll be in STN just for the 1st of January.
In the case it'll be in force already, do you know what's the way to go airside? Have I to ask for a boarding card at check in and pass through the pax channel??
In this case I don't know if they allow me to pass with 2 trolley as I used to do when passing thorough the crew channel...
Thanks a lot! Happy Christmas!
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I thought BAA rules were that non BAA home airport, or other pass holders needed to bring a copy of their roster with them to prove they were on company business to get in? At least that's how it was notified to us by our company?
On a side note, I went through EXT the other day, in smart civies but on duty with my pas on my lanyard, and I was "processed" by a young lady who really puts the rest of the industry to shame. Even her supervisor admitted that.
Polite, courteous and friendly, she made the whole experience of getting half undressed, jumping the hoops and putting my stuff back into a recognisable form a pleasure, nearly.
If only the rest could be given a fraction of her customer service skills, we'd all have an easier time of it.
As to bumping politicians off the plane? It'll only end in tears, not to be recommended. Now bumping them off while they're ON the plane....that's an idea!
On a side note, I went through EXT the other day, in smart civies but on duty with my pas on my lanyard, and I was "processed" by a young lady who really puts the rest of the industry to shame. Even her supervisor admitted that.
Polite, courteous and friendly, she made the whole experience of getting half undressed, jumping the hoops and putting my stuff back into a recognisable form a pleasure, nearly.
If only the rest could be given a fraction of her customer service skills, we'd all have an easier time of it.
As to bumping politicians off the plane? It'll only end in tears, not to be recommended. Now bumping them off while they're ON the plane....that's an idea!