Redundancies and Demotions at bmi
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Speaking from "below the line"on the seniority list, I have to say that although BALPA's heart may be in the right place, there have been very few positive results so far.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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PAULDEGEARUP...You said it yourself in your posting, MORE SENIOR CAPTAINS moving up from London. Just because they work out of EMA doesn't mean they are any different from the rest of us.
There were many FO's more senior to Captains, but didn't have the hours and just got on with it. I think your mate should too.
There were many FO's more senior to Captains, but didn't have the hours and just got on with it. I think your mate should too.
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MP - whatever - but Latin ain't Italian ....
There is a substantial difference between working from EMA and LHR. The attitude of the pilots is different. The attitude of crewing to the pilots is different. ("Would you like some work from Standby today?" - guess where that was asked? Clue - not London. In fact, it was then a LHR pilot called out to cover the EMA flights). The attitude of the ground staff is different ("I don't think we could manage a slot 45 minutes away" - guess where I heard that? Clue - not London). The expectations of the passengers are different. The capacity of the airport is different.
Er, I guess that may have got the point over. It probably wasn't even what the previous correspondent was getting at !!!
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Exile from Groggs ]
There is a substantial difference between working from EMA and LHR. The attitude of the pilots is different. The attitude of crewing to the pilots is different. ("Would you like some work from Standby today?" - guess where that was asked? Clue - not London. In fact, it was then a LHR pilot called out to cover the EMA flights). The attitude of the ground staff is different ("I don't think we could manage a slot 45 minutes away" - guess where I heard that? Clue - not London). The expectations of the passengers are different. The capacity of the airport is different.
Er, I guess that may have got the point over. It probably wasn't even what the previous correspondent was getting at !!!
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Exile from Groggs ]
Uncle Pete
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Exile
The attitude people have to you is the reciprocol of your attitude to them. Bearing in mind Ark's comments I'll expand a little. Be nice to people and their nice back to you.
So there is an ATC delay, so, you cannot undo it so don't upset the messenger. We get delays at EMA as well. We sometimes get shoved in the hold when they are busy. That's life , wherever you are based.
Stay cool!
MP
The attitude people have to you is the reciprocol of your attitude to them. Bearing in mind Ark's comments I'll expand a little. Be nice to people and their nice back to you.
So there is an ATC delay, so, you cannot undo it so don't upset the messenger. We get delays at EMA as well. We sometimes get shoved in the hold when they are busy. That's life , wherever you are based.
Stay cool!
MP
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MP
Actually, it was the other way round. The dispatcher at EMA didn't think 45 mins was an achievable turnaround. This was with pax already off and cleaning under way.
I personally have no axe to grind with crewing. It would be nice to have a better ratio of duty hours to flying hours, but that's a structural problem, not a crewing one. However, I assert that there is a difference between the EMA and LHR base.
There is an urban semi-myth that somebody had just left the crew room at LHR to go home. Crewing rang crew dispatch and asked to talk to them. The crew dispatch officer said they had already left. The response from crewing was, "Well, can't you give them a call out of the window?" This causes much ironic laughter whenever it is recounted at LHR.
(For anybody who has lived their lives in the shady fields of Derbyshire, the staff car park at LHR is a 20 minute bus ride away. I think most people in fact walk further to the bus at LHR than they walk to their cars at EMA. Even since the new terminal was built there.)
I don't doubt that crewing have a virtually impossible, thankless task to do, maybe with inadequate resources. However, few people in crewing have any concept of what life is like south of Luton, or go to the trouble to find out. Few have actually operated duties in the way that crew have to, so have any idea what it is like to be messed around in this way. Also, they have fully swallowed the line that the phenomenal level of disruption that we have come to expect as normal is actually "the nature of the business." I have yet to have a satisfactory explanation as to why that ought to be from anybody. We have a published timetable and 90%+ of flights operate on the planned type. Don't tell me it's block windows - the fact that people use them is a symptom of the level of disruption, not the cause of it. The greatest stress in my job is associated with living with the continual suspicion that crewing are about to try and reschedule my life every day. Literally. This is real, pulse-increasing, gut-churning stress. If you have a family that you care about, and other responsibilities, then you may understand this stress. The rest of the job is easy. See the last "Flight Safety Focus" for a relevant article.
If I was being worked to the maximum, then the only changes that would be made would be to take flying/duty away. So stability would improve if we were worked harder. There's a happy thought.
Incidentally, I think the job is brilliant - I still can't believe that I am paid to fly - and, having been made redundant once (with most of my training costs paid for by a serious bank loan, and interest rates at 10.5%!), I am gutted for those people who find themselves in that position. But that doesn't mean things couldn't be better for us all.
Actually, it was the other way round. The dispatcher at EMA didn't think 45 mins was an achievable turnaround. This was with pax already off and cleaning under way.
I personally have no axe to grind with crewing. It would be nice to have a better ratio of duty hours to flying hours, but that's a structural problem, not a crewing one. However, I assert that there is a difference between the EMA and LHR base.
There is an urban semi-myth that somebody had just left the crew room at LHR to go home. Crewing rang crew dispatch and asked to talk to them. The crew dispatch officer said they had already left. The response from crewing was, "Well, can't you give them a call out of the window?" This causes much ironic laughter whenever it is recounted at LHR.
(For anybody who has lived their lives in the shady fields of Derbyshire, the staff car park at LHR is a 20 minute bus ride away. I think most people in fact walk further to the bus at LHR than they walk to their cars at EMA. Even since the new terminal was built there.)
I don't doubt that crewing have a virtually impossible, thankless task to do, maybe with inadequate resources. However, few people in crewing have any concept of what life is like south of Luton, or go to the trouble to find out. Few have actually operated duties in the way that crew have to, so have any idea what it is like to be messed around in this way. Also, they have fully swallowed the line that the phenomenal level of disruption that we have come to expect as normal is actually "the nature of the business." I have yet to have a satisfactory explanation as to why that ought to be from anybody. We have a published timetable and 90%+ of flights operate on the planned type. Don't tell me it's block windows - the fact that people use them is a symptom of the level of disruption, not the cause of it. The greatest stress in my job is associated with living with the continual suspicion that crewing are about to try and reschedule my life every day. Literally. This is real, pulse-increasing, gut-churning stress. If you have a family that you care about, and other responsibilities, then you may understand this stress. The rest of the job is easy. See the last "Flight Safety Focus" for a relevant article.
If I was being worked to the maximum, then the only changes that would be made would be to take flying/duty away. So stability would improve if we were worked harder. There's a happy thought.
Incidentally, I think the job is brilliant - I still can't believe that I am paid to fly - and, having been made redundant once (with most of my training costs paid for by a serious bank loan, and interest rates at 10.5%!), I am gutted for those people who find themselves in that position. But that doesn't mean things couldn't be better for us all.
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Exile from Groggs
The answer is the experience levels within Crewing and doubtless Crews per aircraft come into it. Don't mock some young lad or ladette just because they've never seen the glitering lights of LHR...
The answer is the experience levels within Crewing and doubtless Crews per aircraft come into it. Don't mock some young lad or ladette just because they've never seen the glitering lights of LHR...
Uncle Pete
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EFG
I agree with you having resided for a brief time in the rich pastures of the Thames basin whilst doing my bit for BM. In those days we had to leave our cars in various hotel car parks, with prior permission from the hotels, and just hope that the wheels and engine were still there when we got back.
Yes, living in DE postal code area has it's perks.
It is very easy to get "wound up" waiting for the phone to ring. It will eventually, even when you are not on standby.
Have a look at the Human Rights Act? That might help.
Keep Attacking!!
MP
I agree with you having resided for a brief time in the rich pastures of the Thames basin whilst doing my bit for BM. In those days we had to leave our cars in various hotel car parks, with prior permission from the hotels, and just hope that the wheels and engine were still there when we got back.
Yes, living in DE postal code area has it's perks.
It is very easy to get "wound up" waiting for the phone to ring. It will eventually, even when you are not on standby.
Have a look at the Human Rights Act? That might help.
Keep Attacking!!
MP
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Sorry, I wasn't mocking. It is only prior commitments that keeps me where I am - I can't see why anybody would choose to work from LHR. (Except .... well, nowhere else has that buzz!) Even so, if I could get a suitable job at LGW, I would have long gone. I even did 6 months from LTN, whilst living south of London. There wasn't much of an increase in journey time - just miles driven. Certainly a reduction in hassle.
There was an engineer we bumped into once, who had moved to work from LHR to Exeter. He described it as the difference between heaven and hell!
There was an engineer we bumped into once, who had moved to work from LHR to Exeter. He described it as the difference between heaven and hell!
