British Airways US Freighters
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British Airways US Freighters
British Airways is applying for permission to expand its fleet of UK based but US registered and crewed Freighters. They have had one Atlas Air B747-400F based in LHR on and off since 1995. They are trying now to bring in another at least until April 2001. This sounds like genuine merchant navy style flagging out to me. By the way foreign airlines (that is non US) are barred by Federal law from competing for wet lease contracts in the USA. No doubt some US pilots will read this. Please don't take this as an attack on you -but this would simply not be allowed in the USA.
If anyone objects to this, the person to write to is; Mr Glenn Cronin
MLD1, zone1/23
DETR, Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London, SW1P 4DR
and to your MP !
If anyone objects to this, the person to write to is; Mr Glenn Cronin
MLD1, zone1/23
DETR, Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London, SW1P 4DR
and to your MP !
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The problem is that 5Y have the freighter capacity available. They have something like 20-25 742F and 10ish 744F (& another 20odd on order). There are virtually no decent 200s left on the market, & definately no 400s around. Secondly, the vast outlay on the 400 ($175m list price). What do you do? - Atlas do provide a solution, and have built their business around it. There is no European equivalent.
Before you ask, I'm European & do not work for Atlas.
(and just as well for us that BA don't take cargo that seriously)
rgds to all
Before you ask, I'm European & do not work for Atlas.
(and just as well for us that BA don't take cargo that seriously)
rgds to all
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Apparently, AFX put in an objection to DETR about Atlas, but a source in BA thinks that the objection will not be successful, as Atlas' 400's can out-perform AFX's Classics for payload & especially range. Also, BA are supposedly looking for at least 2 more aircraft from Atlas.
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Makes a bit of a farce of the oneworld alliance.....oneworld partner CX have a freighter fleet (CXF+AHK)which could be expanded to cover this. Even have a bunch of crews in the western hemisphere (Europe + USA)which could cover the Atlantic flying. True they would need to expand but the resources are available. Would effectively mean the extra jobs would go to North Americans plus Europeans - and that doesn't sound like a bad deal to me!
[This message has been edited by Phrate Animal (edited 14 April 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Phrate Animal (edited 14 April 2000).]
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ShotOne, our company have done it.
European registered company, european registered aircraft with european licensed crews. Are now operating out of MIA for a local US carrier. No problems whatsoever, also Transaer of Ireland wet lease their aircraft to US carriers and that's despite the fact they also operate in and out of Cuba.
Where did you get your facts?
European registered company, european registered aircraft with european licensed crews. Are now operating out of MIA for a local US carrier. No problems whatsoever, also Transaer of Ireland wet lease their aircraft to US carriers and that's despite the fact they also operate in and out of Cuba.
Where did you get your facts?
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ShotOne,
You really need to get your facts straight, before you start yelling Fire.
Taesa, the now defunct carrier, was doing wetleases for Apple Vacations out of Chicago.
As some other threads have shown, Apple is also using british crews on G-registered airplanes, who may or may not be US licensed. ( Not intending to start a riot here, so please) Some other tour operator was using canadian 72's out of St. Louis with Canadian Crews, you can bet they were not taking tourist to Canada in the dead of winter.
ACMI's, or wetleases, is a way for a company to try out new routes, increase lift capability rapidly without serious capital layout. But since it offends ShotOne, tell you what: We will change the concept for you. The US carrier will now setup a route from LHR to Sometown, USA. This will be their own route, but guess what, BA would still put freight on them. The ACMI concept is now gone, feel better???
You really need to get your facts straight, before you start yelling Fire.
Taesa, the now defunct carrier, was doing wetleases for Apple Vacations out of Chicago.
As some other threads have shown, Apple is also using british crews on G-registered airplanes, who may or may not be US licensed. ( Not intending to start a riot here, so please) Some other tour operator was using canadian 72's out of St. Louis with Canadian Crews, you can bet they were not taking tourist to Canada in the dead of winter.
ACMI's, or wetleases, is a way for a company to try out new routes, increase lift capability rapidly without serious capital layout. But since it offends ShotOne, tell you what: We will change the concept for you. The US carrier will now setup a route from LHR to Sometown, USA. This will be their own route, but guess what, BA would still put freight on them. The ACMI concept is now gone, feel better???
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Diesel8, there is much truth in what you say. Our company leased a couple of Atlas' aircraft for precisely those reasons. And all meanwhile substituted with our own equipment/crews.
[This message has been edited by CargoRat (edited 14 April 2000).]
[This message has been edited by CargoRat (edited 14 April 2000).]
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The "new" Southern Air (previous called Southern Air Transport) are picking up the LH aircraft - well at least they have one already and another 2 go to them very soon...
Funny how no European carriers have competed with likes of Atlas / Evergreen / Southern / Polar / Gemini etc...
Closest Europe has are the A300 operators such as ChanEx / Farnair / Air Contractors, but nothing in the DC10/747 area. I recall Cargolux used to do some ACMI stuff but are long since scheduled, even hiring in SAT / Atlas to help with their Panalpina contracts.
Cargolion have just upgraded to DC10 from their old smoking DC-8's...they do some ACMI..
AFX are recent arrival, supposed to be concentrating on scheduled work. Their aircraft are the ex Tigers / Fedex / LH Atlas / Boeing aircraft..with P&W -70A's. Pieces of junk that no-one wanted...
But then again, they are British, and apparently available...
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Hi Zones
Yr Southern bit is correct. Scuttlebut has it that all 3 will be flying with CLX by the end of this year.
Ref AFX. I was going to comment on my previous post, but decided against it. Good luck to them, but they still have to prove themselves. 1 JT9 powered gas guzzler (compared to 400) is not going to make AFX a big name in the market.
CargoLion; Word has it they are finished (financially). The first -10 has been sitting here for a couple of months - hasn't moved except for engine runs. There is 1 DC8 sitting on the ramp minus 2 engines - I'm told they went back to the leasors. Last I heard on the grapevine was that their crews had been asked for a "salary loan".
Cargolux: 10 744Fs doing 16BLH/day. Not much left for ACMI (hence above Southern rumour).
rgds
Yr Southern bit is correct. Scuttlebut has it that all 3 will be flying with CLX by the end of this year.
Ref AFX. I was going to comment on my previous post, but decided against it. Good luck to them, but they still have to prove themselves. 1 JT9 powered gas guzzler (compared to 400) is not going to make AFX a big name in the market.
CargoLion; Word has it they are finished (financially). The first -10 has been sitting here for a couple of months - hasn't moved except for engine runs. There is 1 DC8 sitting on the ramp minus 2 engines - I'm told they went back to the leasors. Last I heard on the grapevine was that their crews had been asked for a "salary loan".
Cargolux: 10 744Fs doing 16BLH/day. Not much left for ACMI (hence above Southern rumour).
rgds
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Diesel 8, I agree that ACMI is a great way to "try out new routes" as you put it. trouble is, this one has been going since 1995 -so much for that argument.
As to the question why European freight carriers aren't competing with the likes of Fed-ex, Polar Air etc we have to look at the so called "open skies" deal. These carriers have a base in Prestwick to make onward flights to various destinations in Europe. No such privilege for European carriers flying in the other direction. Not quite the same subject but you did raise the point.
As to the question why European freight carriers aren't competing with the likes of Fed-ex, Polar Air etc we have to look at the so called "open skies" deal. These carriers have a base in Prestwick to make onward flights to various destinations in Europe. No such privilege for European carriers flying in the other direction. Not quite the same subject but you did raise the point.
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...and, while I am sure that the contributors above who have mentioned short-term leases are telling the truth, that is hardly comparing like with like.
Are you seriously trying to say that if Delta or American Airlines wished to set up and run a freight subsidiary from JFK for 5 years with British owned and crewed aircraft they would be allowed to? Dream on.
Are you seriously trying to say that if Delta or American Airlines wished to set up and run a freight subsidiary from JFK for 5 years with British owned and crewed aircraft they would be allowed to? Dream on.
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ShotOne,
There would not be much point in doing that, for American to set up a British crewed company, since it is more cost effective, read cheaper, for them to use an american company. The other point is that Americans union would not go along with it. Whether there is a federal ruling concerning this topic, I honestly do not know.
There would not be much point in doing that, for American to set up a British crewed company, since it is more cost effective, read cheaper, for them to use an american company. The other point is that Americans union would not go along with it. Whether there is a federal ruling concerning this topic, I honestly do not know.
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Cargolux operates all Swissair cargo flight to Hong kong in place of the Gemini DC10s that used to do it.
BA sometimes has TWO cargo flights a day to HKG both using Atlas aircraft. The flight that is not the BA coloured a/c is always N494MC, suggesting perhaps that BA are permanently using it?
BA sometimes has TWO cargo flights a day to HKG both using Atlas aircraft. The flight that is not the BA coloured a/c is always N494MC, suggesting perhaps that BA are permanently using it?