Qantas emergency landing
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777newbie
Are we really talking "CBs" (of which, I think most in the A330 are not in the flight deck, unlike the A320), or "Computer Reset" buttons (which look CBs to the uninitiated, but are very different animals in action and when they can/should be cycled)?
Like most others, I can only assume the nearest Jonny Suave Trousers has been to an aircraft is as a Pax...
NoD
Rumour from an "insider" is that CB's were cycled under instructions/suggestions from engineering in an attempt to correct the flight control problem
Like most others, I can only assume the nearest Jonny Suave Trousers has been to an aircraft is as a Pax...
NoD
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It is obvious I have no airbus time.
Do checklists call for the use of these "computer reset" switches?
I still think the scenario mentioned is plausible (remember the SQ guy who mistakenly cycled the hydraulic pumps not too far from Learmonth - similar albeit lesser consequences).
Do checklists call for the use of these "computer reset" switches?
I still think the scenario mentioned is plausible (remember the SQ guy who mistakenly cycled the hydraulic pumps not too far from Learmonth - similar albeit lesser consequences).
I'm curious about the control logic (If applicable) that could command an aircraft manuever like reported here. Are there rate of change laws available by computer that can cause this? or does it have to be a mechanical failure?
Another day, another article. Raising the possibility that elevator control "hydraulic O-ring seals" might have had something to do with the inflight upset... which would mean mechanical failure. For what itīs worth:
Qantas warned of flaws in plane&squo;s computer | Herald Sun
Qantas warned of flaws in plane&squo;s computer | Herald Sun
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ExSp33db1rd
of course you did the right thing. if pieces fall off the plane, land, do the paperwork.
I am reminded of "Fate is the Hunter" when a problem over the pacific caused the engines of a DC4 to quit.
Finally, EK Gann took THE ENGINEERS UP and said: you work the throttles, I'll just steer.
All 4 engines quit and the ENGINEERS started screaming.
The QANTAS pilots did the RIGHT, SAFE,PRUDENT thing in landing at the first available field. At that moment, those passengers were no better or worse off than if they had been in an auto accident in that city. I would like to think that methods of stabalizing a spinal injury patient were available there.
Had they continued to Perth, there was a small chance the plane could have come apart in flight...if that had happened, how would someone rectify that problem.
I am not a fan of airbus. The A330 and the A300, while having different flight control systems, are of the same heritage. If I were captain, the tragedy at KFJK would have flashed through my mind.
Jet upsets, flight control irregularities and the like are a damn good reason why a pilot shouldn't have anything on his lap and his attention constantly, CONSTANTLY focused on keeping the plane right side up.
of course you did the right thing. if pieces fall off the plane, land, do the paperwork.
I am reminded of "Fate is the Hunter" when a problem over the pacific caused the engines of a DC4 to quit.
Finally, EK Gann took THE ENGINEERS UP and said: you work the throttles, I'll just steer.
All 4 engines quit and the ENGINEERS started screaming.
The QANTAS pilots did the RIGHT, SAFE,PRUDENT thing in landing at the first available field. At that moment, those passengers were no better or worse off than if they had been in an auto accident in that city. I would like to think that methods of stabalizing a spinal injury patient were available there.
Had they continued to Perth, there was a small chance the plane could have come apart in flight...if that had happened, how would someone rectify that problem.
I am not a fan of airbus. The A330 and the A300, while having different flight control systems, are of the same heritage. If I were captain, the tragedy at KFJK would have flashed through my mind.
Jet upsets, flight control irregularities and the like are a damn good reason why a pilot shouldn't have anything on his lap and his attention constantly, CONSTANTLY focused on keeping the plane right side up.
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Air Canada had one of their A320s or something like drop 'a lot'. Computer problems were also suspected in that case, although I don't know what the official conclusion was.
Prof. Airport Engineer
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BTW to lay some of the Learmonth Airport speculation to rest. The runway is big, long and strong. The place is built to cope with, amongst other military things, B747 aircraft. I know because Ive designed some of the parking procedures.
Its a reasonable choice for an emergency landing. I was last there on a stopover a couple of weeks ago, and looked closely at the airport condition. Its in good condition.
Yes, the terminal is [nice but] too small for a 747 (and A330), the facilities are very limited, there is no ARFF, the nearby town is very very small, the hospital and emergency services are very limited, and the hotel accommodation in the area probably wont cope with 300 pax. But for PPRUNE readers around the world, most of Australia is like that. That is why we have the Flying Doctor to deliver medical services in outback areas [and to emergency landings of A330s]. Learmonth is not the Antarctic where passengers die of exposure. The passenger comfort issues at Learmonth are flies, lousy cappuccinos and sunburn while waiting for the aircraft to come up to ferry them out.
Its a reasonable choice for an emergency landing. I was last there on a stopover a couple of weeks ago, and looked closely at the airport condition. Its in good condition.
Yes, the terminal is [nice but] too small for a 747 (and A330), the facilities are very limited, there is no ARFF, the nearby town is very very small, the hospital and emergency services are very limited, and the hotel accommodation in the area probably wont cope with 300 pax. But for PPRUNE readers around the world, most of Australia is like that. That is why we have the Flying Doctor to deliver medical services in outback areas [and to emergency landings of A330s]. Learmonth is not the Antarctic where passengers die of exposure. The passenger comfort issues at Learmonth are flies, lousy cappuccinos and sunburn while waiting for the aircraft to come up to ferry them out.
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It doesn't take much sense to know that an aircraft full of hurting passengers with a suspected flight control problem is better off on the ground at a remote field than in the air.
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Is there an ATSB Report on this?
Sq A340
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The know-it-all Capt. decided to balance the fuel [ showed his lack of knowledge] by turning the hyd. pumps off[ 2 at a time]. They were not protected in those days as Airbus thought no one would be that stupid.
With no hyd to the stab. it caused a violent pitchup. Quick thinking F/O grabed his side-stick and commanded a full down imput. while k-i-a realised his mistake and quickly put the hyd. pumps back on.
Result was a wild ride with some injuries,don't know how many, but not as bad as this A330 upset.
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The know-it-all Capt. decided to balance the fuel [ showed his lack of knowledge] by turning the hyd. pumps off[ 2 at a time]. They were not protected in those days as Airbus thought no one would be that stupid.
With no hyd to the stab. it caused a violent pitchup. Quick thinking F/O grabed his side-stick and commanded a full down imput. while k-i-a realised his mistake and quickly put the hyd. pumps back on.
Result was a wild ride with some injuries,don't know how many, but not as bad as this A330 upset.
This Airworthiness Directive concerning A330 elevator servo controls mentions O-rings on solenoid valves of each servo, and the timing of the AD is the same as in the Herald Sun article
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legi...30037Amdt2.pdf
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legi...30037Amdt2.pdf
This Airworthiness Directive concerning A330 elevator servo controls mentions O-rings on solenoid valves of each servo, and the timing of the AD is the same as in the Herald Sun article
What loss of safety was involved?
Better explanation under "reason" here, in the EASA version of the same AD:
http://www.slv.dk/Dokumenter/dscgi/d...-2007-0009.pdf
http://www.slv.dk/Dokumenter/dscgi/d...-2007-0009.pdf
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The Wall Street Journal (Asia) reports:
The WSJ reports:
Julian Walsh, director of aviation safety at the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, said an on-board electronic centralized aircraft monitoring system indicated there was "some irregularity with the elevator control system."
The aircraft departed from its normal flight at 37,000 feet, climbed 300 feet, "then as the crew were responding, the aircraft pitched down quite suddenly and rapidly," he said.
"Certainly, there was a period of time when the aircraft performed of its own accord," Mr. Walsh said.
The aircraft, built in 2003 and operated by Qantas since then, made an emergency landing at a remote airfield at Learmonth, an Australian defense force air base, near Exmouth, in Western Australia state.
The aircraft departed from its normal flight at 37,000 feet, climbed 300 feet, "then as the crew were responding, the aircraft pitched down quite suddenly and rapidly," he said.
"Certainly, there was a period of time when the aircraft performed of its own accord," Mr. Walsh said.
The aircraft, built in 2003 and operated by Qantas since then, made an emergency landing at a remote airfield at Learmonth, an Australian defense force air base, near Exmouth, in Western Australia state.
Finn47
Thanks very much for the link above.
My initial read suggest to me that this failure mode mentioned in the AD only affects a failure to respond to a commanded input rather than forces an unwanted input.
still puzzled
Better explanation under "reason" here, in the EASA version of the same AD:
http://www.slv.dk/Dokumenter/dscgi/d...-2007-0009.pdf
http://www.slv.dk/Dokumenter/dscgi/d...-2007-0009.pdf
....In both cases, this situation if not detected could lead to the loss of an
elevator on takeoff and, in the extreme case, reduce the controllability
of the aircraft which is potentially critical.
The aim
elevator on takeoff and, in the extreme case, reduce the controllability
of the aircraft which is potentially critical.
The aim
My initial read suggest to me that this failure mode mentioned in the AD only affects a failure to respond to a commanded input rather than forces an unwanted input.
still puzzled
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ATSB Media Release on this incident
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Well done for the ATSB to include this in each press release:
As some SLF postings earlier indicate, there needs to be some better way of getting this message across... 
NoD
Without pre-empting any findings in relation to cabin safety issues and the wearing of seatbelts, this accident serves as a reminder to all people who travel by air of the importance of keeping seatbelts fastened at all times when seated in an aircraft
NoD
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Originally Posted by NigelOnDraft
As some SLF postings earlier indicate, there needs to be some better way of getting this message across...
Let's face it, wearing a seat belt in a car is compulsory in a lot of country, carrying fairly heavy fines.
Despite the fact that Qantas flights do state "It is a Qantas REQUIREMENT that...", I hear far too many people unbuckling as soon as the seat belt sign is extinguished. Consequently, I would think that legislating it and imposing a fine for not doing so would be the only way of persuading SLFs to wear a seat belt at all times they are seated - that should put people off leaving the seat belt unbuckled.
Although this post is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I really feel that it is quite important for passengers to buckle up when they are seated. Not only can they injure themselves, but they can also injure others if they happen to 'go flying' in an unexpected event.