American MD80 taxied 2 slowly for management, Capt. suspended
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American MD80 taxied 2 slowly for management, Capt. suspended
Last edited by Toothbrush; 10th Sep 2008 at 17:13. Reason: typo
Just SLF here, but can someone explain to me why Captain O is not the one being suspended here--isn't he the one who violated regs by using his cell phone while taxiing?
Taxiing too slow--give me a break! MD-80, full of pax, possibly tankering fuel, one engine shut down to save $$$, not exactly a go-kart on the ground to begin with... take your time and get me to the gate in one piece, thanks.
Taxiing too slow--give me a break! MD-80, full of pax, possibly tankering fuel, one engine shut down to save $$$, not exactly a go-kart on the ground to begin with... take your time and get me to the gate in one piece, thanks.
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Taxiing slowly, and getting time off for doing it, is a time honored tradition at contract time. Now, the pilots will feel empowered by the union's latest defiant pronouncement and at least one clown will find a way to get fired. This brave soul will wrap himself in the union mantle and the union will make some contractual concession to the company to get his job back.
It's all part of the drill...
It's all part of the drill...
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FAA can stand for F#$% American Airlines.
SHAME ON YOU AMERICAN MANAGEMENT.
you shouldn't taxi faster than a man can walk.
and the management pilot, using his cell phone in a critical phase of flight should lose his ATP ticket.
SHAME ON YOU AMERICAN MANAGEMENT.
you shouldn't taxi faster than a man can walk.
and the management pilot, using his cell phone in a critical phase of flight should lose his ATP ticket.
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Can't wait until 411A joins this party! And I'm sure he'll have some silly anecdote from the 60's that won't even pertain to this, and of course the Tristar will be mentioned.
However, when I checked out on the B707 in the early seventies, my PanAmerican instructor mentioned that you can always tell a new Captain, as they tend to be rather careful with taxiing.
He also mentioned...'keep it that way if you know what's good for you.'
And yes, we did a last minute configuration check, then as well
you shouldn't taxi faster than a man can walk.
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Not much about the current regime running American Airlines involves Logic.
AA may not have gotten along with their employees in the past, but both sides grudgingly acknowledged that the other side was good at their jobs.
Now the management running the flight department of AA is frighteningly out of touch with reality, and quite possibly incompetent. The large number of fines from the FAA, repeated stand downs of the largest fleet etc, seam to bear that out. We have come a long way in the WRONG direction from the airline that set the record for the most consecutive operations (movements) without a fatality from May 1979 to December 1995. Somewhere recently the FARS became a GOAL instead of a Limit. And therein lies much of the problems.
The idea that slowly crossing a DEPARTURE runway might put passengers at risk is beyond belief. A couple of weeks ago Captain H. (Big muckety muck of flight) put out a "furlough mitigation proposal" that involved everyone left on the list flying MORE hours (Exactly the opposite of how you mitigate furloughs). The baldfaced lies to our face are just beyond belief.
Cheers
Wino
AA may not have gotten along with their employees in the past, but both sides grudgingly acknowledged that the other side was good at their jobs.
Now the management running the flight department of AA is frighteningly out of touch with reality, and quite possibly incompetent. The large number of fines from the FAA, repeated stand downs of the largest fleet etc, seam to bear that out. We have come a long way in the WRONG direction from the airline that set the record for the most consecutive operations (movements) without a fatality from May 1979 to December 1995. Somewhere recently the FARS became a GOAL instead of a Limit. And therein lies much of the problems.
The idea that slowly crossing a DEPARTURE runway might put passengers at risk is beyond belief. A couple of weeks ago Captain H. (Big muckety muck of flight) put out a "furlough mitigation proposal" that involved everyone left on the list flying MORE hours (Exactly the opposite of how you mitigate furloughs). The baldfaced lies to our face are just beyond belief.
Cheers
Wino
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
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Taxiing slowly, and getting time off for doing it, is a time honored tradition at contract time. Now, the pilots will feel empowered by the union's latest defiant pronouncement and at least one clown will find a way to get fired. This brave soul will wrap himself in the union mantle and the union will make some contractual concession to the company to get his job back.
It's all part of the drill..
It's all part of the drill..
I sympathize, really, but do you have to jam the entire national airspace system just to prove your point? Is there not another way?
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AirBubba are you having a go on taxi speeds or am I reading your post wrong? Doing it every day I have no problem here in Europe with them,Being asked 'ready for an imeditate' and then taking your time. Hence putting other people under pressure I find this should be showed more interest in this sort of thing than what is posted. Sorry if i'm wrong in understanding of your post, Our SOP's is walking pace, And taking the runway and taxing to stand bearing in mind walking pace from other aircarft taking off before us.
I've been recently stuck behind AA jets at LAX and JFK taxiing at snail's pace
We'll know for sure when the start doing transcons at 16,000 as legend would have it at UA during the summer of love.
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In the time ive posted I didnt notice the local dispute surfacing, Sorry I'm not trying to be one sided.Follow the taxing rules in different SOP, I think it is a management problem to sortout with the FAA and all to annoying just do your job.Hopefully someone will se sense!
Whats all this about 'walking pace'? You guys having a bath? (rhymes with laugh)
We let the aircraft accelerate to 30 kts and then brake to 10 kts. (taxiway permitting of course!)
Places like BCN, AMS, MAD have an 8 mile taxi route, surely you guys dont taxi at a walking pace ALL the time??
We let the aircraft accelerate to 30 kts and then brake to 10 kts. (taxiway permitting of course!)
Places like BCN, AMS, MAD have an 8 mile taxi route, surely you guys dont taxi at a walking pace ALL the time??
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Va va vooooom taxi...
Surprising that 411A (and myself) survived flying the 707 with non-existant CRM basics and lack of SOP for taxi speeds.
xxx
Happy contrails (and smoking rubber on taxiways)
xxx
Happy contrails (and smoking rubber on taxiways)
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I posted taxi at a speed that a man can walk.
I've seen 10 knots as max taxi speed (per ops manual) for planes with INS readouts...5 knots in the gate area.
30 knots is a bit fast...especially with FA's in the back...have to stop? all would fall down and YOU have paperwork...I HATE PAPERWORK.
Southwest taxis too fast. I've even heard someone call V1 while taxiing!
the industry is falling apart...and just to remind people, it was a management pilot that crashed an american md80 at little rock. get my drift?
I've seen 10 knots as max taxi speed (per ops manual) for planes with INS readouts...5 knots in the gate area.
30 knots is a bit fast...especially with FA's in the back...have to stop? all would fall down and YOU have paperwork...I HATE PAPERWORK.
Southwest taxis too fast. I've even heard someone call V1 while taxiing!
the industry is falling apart...and just to remind people, it was a management pilot that crashed an american md80 at little rock. get my drift?
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Couldnt resist! Isn't SOP in RYR to accel to V1 then brake to 80 kts?
Serious note though - is there not a mechanism to bring action against the Mgmnt pilot. I would have thought it was an MORable event in violation of the terms of the AOC (do you guys call it an AOC in the USA?). A quiet word to the FAA is not the same thing as putting the wheels in motion and while management may hate a "work to rule" if indeed this was, there is simply no reason to bring action for it - sort the
problem out at root cause.
RIX
Serious note though - is there not a mechanism to bring action against the Mgmnt pilot. I would have thought it was an MORable event in violation of the terms of the AOC (do you guys call it an AOC in the USA?). A quiet word to the FAA is not the same thing as putting the wheels in motion and while management may hate a "work to rule" if indeed this was, there is simply no reason to bring action for it - sort the
problem out at root cause.RIX
sevenstrokeroll;
Both fatigue and cockpit authority gradient were cited as contributing factors in the report.
Yep. Expediency seems to have some currency in the cockpit. Before retiring I had noticed a significant slackness in SOPs from the usual crispness I was used to.
High taxi speeds, (above 30kts), along with the obvious risks, result in high bead temperatures, especially at high weights, which, over time, can lead to tire failure. Damage from extremely high bead temperatures, like ply delamination, is not easily diagnosed by visual inspection. Goodyear published a paper years ago showing a direct relationship between taxi-speed and bead (not internal tire) temperature. The graphs are revealing.
We've all seen "time-building" taxiing before. Unless one is in the cockpit, we don't know the real reason so unless it's a safety issue, (incursion, etc), the benefit of the doubt is the only acceptable response. The action on the part of the checkpilot reveals some very serious disconnects and underlying power-struggles at American which have clearly found expression in the cockpit, on the taxiways and, one wonders, on the runway as well? Regardless - pretty poor show in not sorting it out in other, equally effective but more discrete ways.
...and just to remind people, it was a management pilot that crashed an american md80 at little rock. get my drift?
the industry is falling apart
High taxi speeds, (above 30kts), along with the obvious risks, result in high bead temperatures, especially at high weights, which, over time, can lead to tire failure. Damage from extremely high bead temperatures, like ply delamination, is not easily diagnosed by visual inspection. Goodyear published a paper years ago showing a direct relationship between taxi-speed and bead (not internal tire) temperature. The graphs are revealing.
We've all seen "time-building" taxiing before. Unless one is in the cockpit, we don't know the real reason so unless it's a safety issue, (incursion, etc), the benefit of the doubt is the only acceptable response. The action on the part of the checkpilot reveals some very serious disconnects and underlying power-struggles at American which have clearly found expression in the cockpit, on the taxiways and, one wonders, on the runway as well? Regardless - pretty poor show in not sorting it out in other, equally effective but more discrete ways.