Qantas 744 Depressurisation
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There is a scenario that the fairing came off due to wind pressure, and due to damage or failure of the leading edge screws. Once on the move, with the bottom bracket/strap already failed, the only retainer left would be this upper bracket ??? (if it exists) that, if it is like the lower one, seemingly is attached direct to the fuselage. (Maybe the fairing flailed around for some seconds)
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From the images appears as though the initial failure was the pressure hull and the leading edge root fairing secondary damage.
Big question is - what caused the hull breach??
Big question is - what caused the hull breach??
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Sensational journalism
The sensation seeking press are normally well supplied with phrases to use supplied by scared/terrified passengers as they leave the plane.
A lot of this fear and hysterical descriptions could be avoided if the Captain, once landed, could explain that a decompression took place resulting in a perfectly normal and controlled rapid descent being carried out by the flight crew. In addition,he could explain that cabin crew, ATS, and emergency services all performed as trained to ensure that this incident had a happy ending.
A lot of passengers are scared of flying, mainly through ignorance, and it would maybe also be a good idea that during the CC safety briefing at the start of each flight, passengers are informed that once the oxygen masks drop, there will be a sudden, fast, pilot controlled descent to an altitude where there is more breathable air.
Having been a somewhat nervous passenger myself I can confirm that now that I have a son who flies for an airline, those fears have gone purely due to many conversations with him on flying and the procedures taught and adhered to by all major airlines.
A lot of this fear and hysterical descriptions could be avoided if the Captain, once landed, could explain that a decompression took place resulting in a perfectly normal and controlled rapid descent being carried out by the flight crew. In addition,he could explain that cabin crew, ATS, and emergency services all performed as trained to ensure that this incident had a happy ending.
A lot of passengers are scared of flying, mainly through ignorance, and it would maybe also be a good idea that during the CC safety briefing at the start of each flight, passengers are informed that once the oxygen masks drop, there will be a sudden, fast, pilot controlled descent to an altitude where there is more breathable air.
Having been a somewhat nervous passenger myself I can confirm that now that I have a son who flies for an airline, those fears have gone purely due to many conversations with him on flying and the procedures taught and adhered to by all major airlines.
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Hmmmm.......
First impression was similarity of damage to TWA 840 back in '86. Caused by a B......
Will try and find image.
TWA Flight 840 (1986) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
First impression was similarity of damage to TWA 840 back in '86. Caused by a B......
Will try and find image.
TWA Flight 840 (1986) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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NSEU i'm with your theory. Look at the fwd frame that is still intact. this frame runs the whole diameter of the aircraft and has the door hinges attached. Any explosive damage would be seen on the frame.
I would concur that a small area of corrosion 'let Go' coupled with rapid decompression and blew the rest of the skin and fairing out. The internal cargo wall bracing strut is still there which would have been damaged if any internal explosion happened.
The galley area around the door sill is renowned for spillages of coffee etc, which causes huge corrosion problems.
Seems someone may have missed a deep corrosion area on the last check.
Regards
Pist n Broke
I would concur that a small area of corrosion 'let Go' coupled with rapid decompression and blew the rest of the skin and fairing out. The internal cargo wall bracing strut is still there which would have been damaged if any internal explosion happened.
The galley area around the door sill is renowned for spillages of coffee etc, which causes huge corrosion problems.
Seems someone may have missed a deep corrosion area on the last check.
Regards
Pist n Broke
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Qantas will spend as much time and money as it takes to get the A/C back in service.
They did this after the BKK incident in order to maintain their record as the only carrier without a hull loss in their history.
They did this after the BKK incident in order to maintain their record as the only carrier without a hull loss in their history.
CNN female anchor..breathless with excitement.......jet plunged 20 thousand feet in 30 seconds. Doesn't anyone in journoland do a little mental mathmatics before spewing garbage?
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Hexboy
I have to agree. After that part of the passenger safety briefing that says 'in the event of loss of cabin pressure .....' and the bits about looking after yourself before helping others a single sentence stating that 'the aircraft will commence a rapid decent to a level where you may discard the oxygen mask and breathe normally' would make a big difference.
I have to agree. After that part of the passenger safety briefing that says 'in the event of loss of cabin pressure .....' and the bits about looking after yourself before helping others a single sentence stating that 'the aircraft will commence a rapid decent to a level where you may discard the oxygen mask and breathe normally' would make a big difference.
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I can't see this investigation being too difficult, plenty of evidence, and thankfully an intact (mostly) aircraft.
Still no definite answer there!
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WINDSHEER, you wrote...
For f sake boeing..sort it out!
This has happened too many times over the years!
If this was a 'eastern' a/c the entire fleet would be grounded. I expect the FAA wil find a way to stop the Boeing/US economy taking a hit on this one!
AAAARRRHHH!!
WINDSHEER.....
You can't be serious.... (no this is not a line from airplane or aeroplane or flying high) where ever you are....
Not taking any credit away from Eastern built aircraft. We all know they are built like tanks.... but if you are to compare hours of service that Boeing product has put in and specifically the 747 vs. eastern built aircraft, I think we all know who is ahead... and like everything else in the world, regarless if its an engine or airframe metal...its a matter of statistics... and eventually after X amount of hours in service something has to give....
So don’t jump conclusions and start pointing fingers at Boeing or anyone else, lets all wait and let the professional investigators do what they do.. they have or will have the facts and data required and in due time will tell us what happened.
But for the mean time, with all due respect your remark is out of place.
For f sake boeing..sort it out!
This has happened too many times over the years!
If this was a 'eastern' a/c the entire fleet would be grounded. I expect the FAA wil find a way to stop the Boeing/US economy taking a hit on this one!
AAAARRRHHH!!
WINDSHEER.....
You can't be serious.... (no this is not a line from airplane or aeroplane or flying high) where ever you are....
Not taking any credit away from Eastern built aircraft. We all know they are built like tanks.... but if you are to compare hours of service that Boeing product has put in and specifically the 747 vs. eastern built aircraft, I think we all know who is ahead... and like everything else in the world, regarless if its an engine or airframe metal...its a matter of statistics... and eventually after X amount of hours in service something has to give....
So don’t jump conclusions and start pointing fingers at Boeing or anyone else, lets all wait and let the professional investigators do what they do.. they have or will have the facts and data required and in due time will tell us what happened.
But for the mean time, with all due respect your remark is out of place.
Last edited by taiar; 25th Jul 2008 at 13:56.
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Looks like the cargo blocked much of the hole. The gap left is not much bigger than an open outflow valve. Will be interesting to see what the cabin ROD was. Looks like it will be stuck there for weeks for repair, and thats after the authorities have finished with it.
Stercus Accidit
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This incident might explain the China Airline 611 crash?
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Bus429
Just a theory, but epoxy composite can be as strong/stronger than metal (e.g. 787) and a partially detached fairing could catch a lot of air at cruising speed.
However I think Volume has made an astute observation...
If you were fold the top piece of metal that is bent upwards back to its original position it would meet at the lapjoint. Also if you photoshop/enlarge the image, there is a very jagged piece of the multi-rivetted lapjoint sticking directly outwards.
So perhaps the initial failure was here, the pressure escaped downwards initially, cleanly blowing-out the screws/rivets of the fairing below this line. Then the wind pressure ripped off the remaining part of the fairing upwards. Hence no damage to the leading edge and no ingestion of any debris.
Anticipate some swift inspections...
Surely the failure of the wing/body fairing could not precipitate that apparent damage? I'm only a humble B2 engineer so willing to be corrected.
However I think Volume has made an astute observation...
The longitudinal laopjoint (the one that cause the Aloha incident on a 737) is running right acros the center of the hole. Worth thinking about when looking for the initial failure...
So perhaps the initial failure was here, the pressure escaped downwards initially, cleanly blowing-out the screws/rivets of the fairing below this line. Then the wind pressure ripped off the remaining part of the fairing upwards. Hence no damage to the leading edge and no ingestion of any debris.
Anticipate some swift inspections...
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From flyingfrogs post #80
Quote "Mrs Manchester claimed that 20 minutes after the plane first took off from Heathrow, she heard a loud bang near the faulty door. "You have to wonder if that explosion could have caused the second one," she said."
Is it possible that what she heard was an improperly secured container or pallet breaking free during climb-out manouevres, and that this had impacted the fuselage wall and caused damage that later led to a skin failure? The pressure loss through this would have pressurised the wing root fairing and blown it off.
Quote "Mrs Manchester claimed that 20 minutes after the plane first took off from Heathrow, she heard a loud bang near the faulty door. "You have to wonder if that explosion could have caused the second one," she said."
Is it possible that what she heard was an improperly secured container or pallet breaking free during climb-out manouevres, and that this had impacted the fuselage wall and caused damage that later led to a skin failure? The pressure loss through this would have pressurised the wing root fairing and blown it off.
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Why couldn't it have been something as straight-forward as an improperly secured baggage container or cargo-pallet that simply worked loose in-flight, puncturing the pressure-hull...?
Only problem I'd have with that is where the whole is compared to the level of the freight floor, the fuselage appears to have failed at about half way up an AK, the bin would have hit the fuselage side with it's "flat side".
Also unit movements generally happen during takeoff or turbulence. It would seem unlikely to happen in S&L cruise.
This theory will be easy to prove/disprove when/if we find out the load plan of the aircraft, it will also help work out where those bags came from.
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Originally Posted by mover625
Qantas will spend as much time and money as it takes to get the A/C back in service.
They did this after the BKK incident in order to maintain their record as the only carrier without a hull loss in their history.
They did this after the BKK incident in order to maintain their record as the only carrier without a hull loss in their history.
Back on topic (unusual here, I know) but can any licenced or qualified engineers or pilots confirm the number of hours on this airframe, number of cycles and any relevant AD's? Anoraks, hedge chimps, wannabees and MS desk flyers need not respond.
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and another BBC classic........
on the BBC Today programme, Evan Davies was interviewing one of the passengers. I quote .. " you must have wondered if you were ever going to get down ? "
Prat.
Prat.