Pilot training and experience
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Pilot training and experience
I'm not a pilot, so I may be talking out of my rear end. But something struck me while reading through the thread about the AT 330 that was brought down safely in the Azores.
I think it was Guvnor who mentioned the the pilot's "bush" experience on DC6, implying that this would have helped him in this emergency, and questioning whether pilots that had been brought up on just the Airbus (or similar) would have had enough expertise to do the same job.
It strikes me that no amount of experience with "stick and rudder" on a DC6 is going to prepare you adequately for handling an A330 that's dead in the air. In fact, it may even work to your disadvantage because the handling characteristics would be so different. What I would have thought would be most significant is excellent and continuing training on type, even if that exact scenario isn't covered in the sims.
That's not to say that overall flying experience doesn't help - especially in the are of keeping cool and level-headed and making informed and sensible decisions in a crisis.
I'd be interested to know what other pilots think.
I think it was Guvnor who mentioned the the pilot's "bush" experience on DC6, implying that this would have helped him in this emergency, and questioning whether pilots that had been brought up on just the Airbus (or similar) would have had enough expertise to do the same job.
It strikes me that no amount of experience with "stick and rudder" on a DC6 is going to prepare you adequately for handling an A330 that's dead in the air. In fact, it may even work to your disadvantage because the handling characteristics would be so different. What I would have thought would be most significant is excellent and continuing training on type, even if that exact scenario isn't covered in the sims.
That's not to say that overall flying experience doesn't help - especially in the are of keeping cool and level-headed and making informed and sensible decisions in a crisis.
I'd be interested to know what other pilots think.
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Of course the handling characteristics would be different, but my experience of Canadian and African bush pilots is that they could fly a bath with wings and more importantly they have the grasp of the fundamentals of flying that people who have only flown for sizeable airlines (probably) don't have. Bear in mind that much of this experience has been gained from going through some very sticky situations and getting out of it in one piece.
As someone said in response to my views on this on the Airline pilots "lack skills to handle emergencies" thread, the sort of incidents we saw at Sioux City, Gimli and now Lajes don't happen that often. But they do happen - and some of the reponses on the now closed thread about the incident showed that airlines do not train for double engine flameouts.
Now, do you think that someone who had not been trained in what to do in the case of a situation such as this - and without the handling experience gained in somewhat more antique types - would in all probability have been able to achieve the same result as Capt Robert Piché - who has 20 years of bush piloting experience on DC6s - did on Friday?
As someone said in response to my views on this on the Airline pilots "lack skills to handle emergencies" thread, the sort of incidents we saw at Sioux City, Gimli and now Lajes don't happen that often. But they do happen - and some of the reponses on the now closed thread about the incident showed that airlines do not train for double engine flameouts.
Now, do you think that someone who had not been trained in what to do in the case of a situation such as this - and without the handling experience gained in somewhat more antique types - would in all probability have been able to achieve the same result as Capt Robert Piché - who has 20 years of bush piloting experience on DC6s - did on Friday?
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Recently I've become an airline pilot, but I've flown helicopter in the navy for 10 years before I went "commercial".
What I'm really missing in airline flying is sim-time. In the navy I was in the sim each week (we were lucky to have our own "full-motion-180 degrees visual" sim on our airstation), compared to the twice a year in the sim right now. This results in lack of emergency training for the more inexperienced pilots.
In the navy we used to say that "flying" does not only mean handling the aircraft; flying is much more: it's something between your ears, a state of mind and a certain attitude.
So I agree with Guvnor: it,s not only the stick-time on type that matters, but also your experience in flying in general, especially when you're operating (or have operated) on the limits!! Because only then you understand the true meaning (and fun) of flying.
Cheers!!
Remember: every take off is a choice, every landing a must...
What I'm really missing in airline flying is sim-time. In the navy I was in the sim each week (we were lucky to have our own "full-motion-180 degrees visual" sim on our airstation), compared to the twice a year in the sim right now. This results in lack of emergency training for the more inexperienced pilots.
In the navy we used to say that "flying" does not only mean handling the aircraft; flying is much more: it's something between your ears, a state of mind and a certain attitude.
So I agree with Guvnor: it,s not only the stick-time on type that matters, but also your experience in flying in general, especially when you're operating (or have operated) on the limits!! Because only then you understand the true meaning (and fun) of flying.
Cheers!!
Remember: every take off is a choice, every landing a must...
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"...but my experience of Canadian and African bush pilots is that they could fly a bath with wings and more importantly they have the grasp of the fundamentals of flying that people who have only flown for sizeable airlines (probably) don't have."
I cant wait to see the poor eejits that fall for this one and reply to the statements made by the Guv. I will give him credit for being a persistant sod but how much more of his utter 'cow droppings' do we have to put up with on here? Next he will claim that his statements are based on research from somewhere, most likely his own, which like everything that comes from his hand is crooked in some way or another.
Covenant would do well to learn that even hinting at acknowledging anything the Guv writes is inviting him to burst forth with a veritable gutload of more verbal diarrhoea which will contain not one single nugget of anything useful and will only cause him to anger just about every airline pilot that reads this web page. The Guv is just a wannabee pilot groupie who is not liked by any of us 'Systems Monitors' who have never flown a DC6 (?!?) or a Beaver in the bush. We are just glorified bus drivers to the likes of this Walter Mitty character and the sooner his creditors get hold of him the better for the rest of us as long as they dont allow internet access from prison.
"Now, do you think that someone who had not been trained in what to do in the case of a situation such as this - and without the handling experience gained in somewhat more antique types - would in all probability have been able to achieve the same result as Capt Robert Piché - who has 20 years of bush piloting experience on DC6s - did on Friday?"
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Ozdude,
I don't usually agree with the tone of your postings or the 'Canberra school of diplomacy' but you have summed up the (so called) Guvnor very well.
For those who are less informed the 'Guvnor' is reportedly a deluded individual, a self styled (wannabe) airline executive who has allegedly duped many with false hopes of a cargo startup from PIK.
From his postings here and elsewhere it is evident he spends his days surfing airline sites for news and info to impress us with his knowledge.
He evidently very little commercial aviation experience and seeks to engratiate himself in the ranks professionals. He has remonstrated with little regard for the professional standards of mere 'machine minders' and unsurprisingly has no experience of flying himself.
You may draw your conclusions from his 'handle'.
The Guvnor is just another aircraft spotter
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: Magplug ]
I don't usually agree with the tone of your postings or the 'Canberra school of diplomacy' but you have summed up the (so called) Guvnor very well.
For those who are less informed the 'Guvnor' is reportedly a deluded individual, a self styled (wannabe) airline executive who has allegedly duped many with false hopes of a cargo startup from PIK.
From his postings here and elsewhere it is evident he spends his days surfing airline sites for news and info to impress us with his knowledge.
He evidently very little commercial aviation experience and seeks to engratiate himself in the ranks professionals. He has remonstrated with little regard for the professional standards of mere 'machine minders' and unsurprisingly has no experience of flying himself.
You may draw your conclusions from his 'handle'.
The Guvnor is just another aircraft spotter
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: Magplug ]
