Korean and Asiana - whats the big hang up?
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ELAC and Few Cloudy,
Asiana pilot was referring to a different accident at Cheju.
Barry Woods was the captain of the KE A300 accident. It happened because the F/O pulled the yoke back after the plane had already landed on the runway. Capt. Woods passed away early this year after a long battle with cancer. If my memory serves me correctly, he was 57.
Asiana pilot was referring to a different accident at Cheju.
Barry Woods was the captain of the KE A300 accident. It happened because the F/O pulled the yoke back after the plane had already landed on the runway. Capt. Woods passed away early this year after a long battle with cancer. If my memory serves me correctly, he was 57.
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Invariably;
now you go to the other end of the spectrum!
i am american and i do not fit into your description of americans!
if you are british, read your history books and recall what the brits did around the world when the chance arose. as well as the spanish, dutch, belgians, japanese, portuguese, norwegians, mexicans, germans, french, italians (and the list goes on) at different times in history!!!(and catholics too!)
and americans as well.
don't blame me for bush junior being president. i did vote for his father. at least he was in the military service and got wet after his plane went down. a bit more than junior did, or clinton at that.
i agreed with asiana pilot, but i can't agree with what you wrote.
mccartney put it well, "there is good and bad, in everyone" and we can put country as well as airline in 'everyone's place.
[ 27 August 2001: Message edited by: stator vane ]
now you go to the other end of the spectrum!
i am american and i do not fit into your description of americans!
if you are british, read your history books and recall what the brits did around the world when the chance arose. as well as the spanish, dutch, belgians, japanese, portuguese, norwegians, mexicans, germans, french, italians (and the list goes on) at different times in history!!!(and catholics too!)
and americans as well.
don't blame me for bush junior being president. i did vote for his father. at least he was in the military service and got wet after his plane went down. a bit more than junior did, or clinton at that.
i agreed with asiana pilot, but i can't agree with what you wrote.
mccartney put it well, "there is good and bad, in everyone" and we can put country as well as airline in 'everyone's place.
[ 27 August 2001: Message edited by: stator vane ]
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"there is good and bad in everyone" - unfortunatly some get to voice their anger more than others.Just look at what israel are doing to the Palisteins - or is that forbidden teritory in the US?
Like it or not ,they are slowly killing the world with their raw and ignorant abuse of power and history.
There is good and bad in all but unfortunatly there is 99%bad in the US .An abusive lot they are.
I am not english by the way.I was born Pusan in Korea and now live europe with my Korean parents and family.
By the way ,your educational system in the states seems to speak volumes about the quality of young students you lot are chearning out. - All fat,All watch MTV,All highly ignorant ,All on drugs,All eat junk food etc etc - oh I'm sorry ,not all,but 99.99%Happy now?And these people are running the world!Good god what is in store next?
Like it or not ,they are slowly killing the world with their raw and ignorant abuse of power and history.
There is good and bad in all but unfortunatly there is 99%bad in the US .An abusive lot they are.
I am not english by the way.I was born Pusan in Korea and now live europe with my Korean parents and family.
By the way ,your educational system in the states seems to speak volumes about the quality of young students you lot are chearning out. - All fat,All watch MTV,All highly ignorant ,All on drugs,All eat junk food etc etc - oh I'm sorry ,not all,but 99.99%Happy now?And these people are running the world!Good god what is in store next?
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invariably:
your use of the term ALL is poor indeed. what school taught you that definition?
i tried to send you an email but it was blocked.
i don't want to use this aviation forum to pursue this subject any further.
if it weren't for brits, aussies and those nasty americans, amoung others, your country would be part of north korea, and all of europe would be speaking german with goose steps and brown suits.
but your attitude on this thread gives good evidence about how off-balanced views of pilots can get in the cockpit.
your use of the term ALL is poor indeed. what school taught you that definition?
i tried to send you an email but it was blocked.
i don't want to use this aviation forum to pursue this subject any further.
if it weren't for brits, aussies and those nasty americans, amoung others, your country would be part of north korea, and all of europe would be speaking german with goose steps and brown suits.
but your attitude on this thread gives good evidence about how off-balanced views of pilots can get in the cockpit.
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you are all a discrace and a shame to this nasty forum.It's all pro brit's and Yanks.All else can go to high hell.My father is a KAL B777 capt and is well above any western pilot.End this thread if you will,but only for convenience on your behalf.
Invaribly!
Hmm, interesting name - lets just look it up in the dictionary for a definition shall we?
Aha, seems to be a bit of a problem here - perhaps it should be in Invariably?
The one thing that is invariable about your posts is your poor opinion of the USA, Americans and anything American (although you do not limit yourself to that, by any means). The very type of opinions that you yourself express, are identical to those that you accuse "99.99%" of the world of considering representative of Korea.
Apparently at these American schools;
"By the way ,your educational system in the states seems to speak volumes about the quality of young students you lot are chearning out. - All fat,All watch MTV,All highly ignorant ,All on drugs,All eat junk food etc etc - oh I'm sorry ,not all,but 99.99%Happy now?
I think you you are guilty of nothing more than demonstrating the exact qualities that you lambast others for;
Compare that to the profile;
You maybe nothing more than a keen young wannabee, but for the sake of your own credibility you might want to think a little harder before you actually post some of the nonsense you put here. If the manner that you are exhibiting yourself on this forum is in any way reflected in your real life, then there may be some basis for your acrimonious treatment of others, resulting from the animosity you appear to generate from those you come into contact with.
I guess I am now confused as to who you are and what you do - could you enlighten us?
I won't take you up on your original invitation
because this is exactly part and parcel of this entire thread (the treatment of others in this manner), and is simply not representative of how this board, or the majority of its members work!
Hmm, interesting name - lets just look it up in the dictionary for a definition shall we?
Aha, seems to be a bit of a problem here - perhaps it should be in Invariably?
The one thing that is invariable about your posts is your poor opinion of the USA, Americans and anything American (although you do not limit yourself to that, by any means). The very type of opinions that you yourself express, are identical to those that you accuse "99.99%" of the world of considering representative of Korea.
Apparently at these American schools;
"By the way ,your educational system in the states seems to speak volumes about the quality of young students you lot are chearning out. - All fat,All watch MTV,All highly ignorant ,All on drugs,All eat junk food etc etc - oh I'm sorry ,not all,but 99.99%Happy now?
"There is good and bad in all but unfortunatly there is 99%bad in the US .An abusive lot they are.
"Thats if anyone can of course.Describe situations to me and indeed the rest of us all,because I gather that 99% of what has been said about this airline has been from "a friend of a friend of a friend told me. . .etc"."
"Thats if anyone can of course.Describe situations to me and indeed the rest of us all,because I gather that 99% of what has been said about this airline has been from "a friend of a friend of a friend told me. . .etc"."
"Ok I am not a qualified pilot,..."
PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
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Occupation: type rated pilot.
Interests: flying!
Member Number: 33720
Registered: 09 May 2001
Posts: 32
Email Address: [email protected]
Occupation: type rated pilot.
Interests: flying!
I guess I am now confused as to who you are and what you do - could you enlighten us?
I won't take you up on your original invitation
"I have a really great idea - instead of insulting me in your replies and calling a f***ing fool"
Well, while I was writing my reply, a further little missive popped up from Invaribly.
If I was ever to have seen anything to validate some of the past comments on this board, it is in those few lines above this post!
Say no more!
If I was ever to have seen anything to validate some of the past comments on this board, it is in those few lines above this post!
Say no more!
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Hei, Cyclic!
Why you waste your time with a problematic teen like Invariably?
This is a serious board, not a place to argue with a poor soul that is a direct reflex of a xenophobic-paranoid military mentality.
And you get really mad with him!...C'mon, relax...lets enjoy this space better!
Why you waste your time with a problematic teen like Invariably?
This is a serious board, not a place to argue with a poor soul that is a direct reflex of a xenophobic-paranoid military mentality.
And you get really mad with him!...C'mon, relax...lets enjoy this space better!
Believe me, I'm not Mad! 
I found his entire commentary to be so patently flawed that it was time to take 10 minutes to illustrate it!
Your portrait of the individual in question is, I feel, how should I put it - insightful!
I found his entire commentary to be so patently flawed that it was time to take 10 minutes to illustrate it!
Your portrait of the individual in question is, I feel, how should I put it - insightful!
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To you all...
I do appreciated for your all comments.
I joined Asiana Airlines in 1990 and I am flying B747-400 as a Captain.
While I was a B737 First Officer, there were many Ex-Pat Captains working for Asiana Airlines and still do.
At the time, the Ex-Pat Captains were from USA, Brazil, Australia, Britain Mexico and Etc..
The Ex-Pat Captains did a wonderful job for Asiana Airlines and they were respected among all the First Officers and most of the Captains. (Unfortunately I cannot say all of the Captains - like 7x7 said.... ego problems)
I personally learned alot from Ex-Pat Captains because they were gentlemen of the gentlemen and they were willing to help all the First Officers and other Captains.
They worked so hard for Asiana Airlines and I am proud say that they were the foundation
of Asiana Airlines.
Asiana Airlines have hired only the qualified Ex-Pat Captains and still do..
The Sim Check ride is not that hard.
Eng Fire, Engin Fail, one Eng inop landing
or 2 eng inop landing, hydralic problems, maybe electrical problems, VOR approach, Missed Approach..
When they have Sim Check, normally applicants fly with another applicants.
Of course, if they cannot be manned with another applicant, one of our first officer will assist him. But the FO will just do whatever the captain commend.
The Check Airman normally don't comment during the Sim Check.
Because he is not there to instruct the applicant.
He will not yell at you nor critisize about your skill.
He just want to find out if your performance is within Asiana standard.
For 767 Driver..
I don't know why you were not accepted for the job with Asiana Airlines..
But let me tell you this, 767 Driver...
The Ex-Pat Captains working for Asiana Airlines are well qualified for the job and they are respected among korean pilots.
(If you don't know why you were not qualified, please tell me your name and I will try to find out for you.)
Yes, we do have harsh medical exam here.
And it's not only for Ex-Pat Captains. We korean pilots must go through the same exam every 6 months.
In conclusion...
We pilots cannot afford to make mistates nor accidents.
But we can learn from those accidents and incidents.
* Can we critisize others mistakes??????
I don't think so.
We human can make mistakes.
* Are we perfect ????
No, but we do work hard not to make stupid mistakes.
I do come in PPRUNE for the informations which I can learn from..
NOT TO CRITISIZE OTHER
I do appreciated for your all comments.
I joined Asiana Airlines in 1990 and I am flying B747-400 as a Captain.
While I was a B737 First Officer, there were many Ex-Pat Captains working for Asiana Airlines and still do.
At the time, the Ex-Pat Captains were from USA, Brazil, Australia, Britain Mexico and Etc..
The Ex-Pat Captains did a wonderful job for Asiana Airlines and they were respected among all the First Officers and most of the Captains. (Unfortunately I cannot say all of the Captains - like 7x7 said.... ego problems)
I personally learned alot from Ex-Pat Captains because they were gentlemen of the gentlemen and they were willing to help all the First Officers and other Captains.
They worked so hard for Asiana Airlines and I am proud say that they were the foundation
of Asiana Airlines.
Asiana Airlines have hired only the qualified Ex-Pat Captains and still do..
The Sim Check ride is not that hard.
Eng Fire, Engin Fail, one Eng inop landing
or 2 eng inop landing, hydralic problems, maybe electrical problems, VOR approach, Missed Approach..
When they have Sim Check, normally applicants fly with another applicants.
Of course, if they cannot be manned with another applicant, one of our first officer will assist him. But the FO will just do whatever the captain commend.
The Check Airman normally don't comment during the Sim Check.
Because he is not there to instruct the applicant.
He will not yell at you nor critisize about your skill.
He just want to find out if your performance is within Asiana standard.
For 767 Driver..
I don't know why you were not accepted for the job with Asiana Airlines..
But let me tell you this, 767 Driver...
The Ex-Pat Captains working for Asiana Airlines are well qualified for the job and they are respected among korean pilots.
(If you don't know why you were not qualified, please tell me your name and I will try to find out for you.)
Yes, we do have harsh medical exam here.
And it's not only for Ex-Pat Captains. We korean pilots must go through the same exam every 6 months.
In conclusion...
We pilots cannot afford to make mistates nor accidents.
But we can learn from those accidents and incidents.
* Can we critisize others mistakes??????
I don't think so.
We human can make mistakes.
* Are we perfect ????
No, but we do work hard not to make stupid mistakes.
I do come in PPRUNE for the informations which I can learn from..
NOT TO CRITISIZE OTHER
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Regarding invariable's[ post of 27 Aug at 22.22 and his comment
------------------------------
"My father is a KAL B777 capt and is well above any western pilot"
--------------------------
See my post on Page 1 (27 Aug, 06:15).
- Q.E.D.
(For non-English speakers, that means, very loosely translated from the Latin "My point is proven by demonstration.")
And let me add my congratulations to asiana pilot on his last post. You don't say whether you're a graduate of the military or the civil school. I'm sort of hoping you're an example of the younger Korean ex-military guys, because if you are, it shows there's hope that the system is changing for the better.
------------------------------
"My father is a KAL B777 capt and is well above any western pilot"
--------------------------
See my post on Page 1 (27 Aug, 06:15).
- Q.E.D.
(For non-English speakers, that means, very loosely translated from the Latin "My point is proven by demonstration.")
And let me add my congratulations to asiana pilot on his last post. You don't say whether you're a graduate of the military or the civil school. I'm sort of hoping you're an example of the younger Korean ex-military guys, because if you are, it shows there's hope that the system is changing for the better.
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Well said Asiana
Finally you came along and tell those pilots who were talking nasty things about airlines which they were dreamed of working for but couldn't, because they weren't qualified.
767 driver and his fellow guys are not starving to death, ----- thank god for that.
Friends of mine are working for Korean Air and Asiana Airlines as expats and they are very happy.
They even called me several times to come over and work for Korean Air or Asiana.
I don't have enough time (B767), but when I do, I will be glad to work for them.
Sure they told me some difficulties, but that is something I should be aware of, because I will working for an airline which is not in my own country.
Hope to fly for your company pretty soon.
Finally you came along and tell those pilots who were talking nasty things about airlines which they were dreamed of working for but couldn't, because they weren't qualified.
767 driver and his fellow guys are not starving to death, ----- thank god for that.
Friends of mine are working for Korean Air and Asiana Airlines as expats and they are very happy.
They even called me several times to come over and work for Korean Air or Asiana.
I don't have enough time (B767), but when I do, I will be glad to work for them.
Sure they told me some difficulties, but that is something I should be aware of, because I will working for an airline which is not in my own country.
Hope to fly for your company pretty soon.
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In 1997 I observed a KAL sim detail in 747-400 at KAL sim complex in Inchon. Most appalling training I have ever seen. Instructor shouting, no use of proper checklist allowed for emergencies, poor briefing, no use of autopilot or flight director. Pilots loaded up so that proper conduct of detail impossible. in my opinion this was to prove that Korean pilots were superior to foreigners.
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I have just read the Delta report, Ouch! I do hope that things have changed a lot since then.
Invaribly why don't you play on the Yahoo boards where you will find posters who have the same level of inteligence and maturity as yourself.
Invaribly why don't you play on the Yahoo boards where you will find posters who have the same level of inteligence and maturity as yourself.
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Dear Asiana 747 Captain,
I'm currently doing my flight training in Australia as well as my ATPL exams. My friends and i who are from the University Of Western Sydney have formed a Korean Australian Pilots Association and would like to ask you a few questions if you don't mind.
Would you be able to email me your email address please. My email address is [email protected] "Thank you!"
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: lightspeed ]
I'm currently doing my flight training in Australia as well as my ATPL exams. My friends and i who are from the University Of Western Sydney have formed a Korean Australian Pilots Association and would like to ask you a few questions if you don't mind.
Would you be able to email me your email address please. My email address is [email protected] "Thank you!"
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: lightspeed ]
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Fellows,
Please see my reply on the thread "SIA JOBS MkII".
It is fascinating: when airline's management staff register on a Board with the solely objective to make personal attacks, you can be sure they are affraid of the truth.
Asiana Pilot: you're right. Foreign captains were respected when the airline needed desperately them. Now is different because local pilots THINK they can do it themselves.
But the airline bosses know the truth and keep on recruiting foreign captains.
Here is the problem: a cold war between the union and airline administrators, were foreign pilots are used as negotiating matter.
That's is why the evaluation system has not fair, have no technical grounds. It is jokingly regarded by foreign pilots as a lottery.
To be failed or not is just a random event.
Well, it is not a matter of bad luck that South Korea civil aviation safety records are the worst in the world. Please click on "Tech/Safety" and take some minutes reading the impeccable and accurate Delta Airlines Audit Report. Now it describes better Asiana present situation than KAL, for that matter.
Personally, I am very happy back to the airline were I've been building a solid 18 years career. I am far from being a great ace (like the one who got a -400 command in less than 10 years...).
But I am line instructor, was invited to be a checkpilot, never failed a single check. Enjoy a good and stable roster, a friendly professional environment, nice aircraft.
Money? No good indeed. But there is no perfection.
I thank God I made the right decision in getting out such an outfit.
I just try to prevent good fellows from making this mistake.
Please see my reply on the thread "SIA JOBS MkII".
It is fascinating: when airline's management staff register on a Board with the solely objective to make personal attacks, you can be sure they are affraid of the truth.
Asiana Pilot: you're right. Foreign captains were respected when the airline needed desperately them. Now is different because local pilots THINK they can do it themselves.
But the airline bosses know the truth and keep on recruiting foreign captains.
Here is the problem: a cold war between the union and airline administrators, were foreign pilots are used as negotiating matter.
That's is why the evaluation system has not fair, have no technical grounds. It is jokingly regarded by foreign pilots as a lottery.
To be failed or not is just a random event.
Well, it is not a matter of bad luck that South Korea civil aviation safety records are the worst in the world. Please click on "Tech/Safety" and take some minutes reading the impeccable and accurate Delta Airlines Audit Report. Now it describes better Asiana present situation than KAL, for that matter.
Personally, I am very happy back to the airline were I've been building a solid 18 years career. I am far from being a great ace (like the one who got a -400 command in less than 10 years...).
But I am line instructor, was invited to be a checkpilot, never failed a single check. Enjoy a good and stable roster, a friendly professional environment, nice aircraft.
Money? No good indeed. But there is no perfection.
I thank God I made the right decision in getting out such an outfit.
I just try to prevent good fellows from making this mistake.