BALPA withdraw from Open Skies Court Case
Join Date: Nov 2004
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And for the Hulk, its getting late to spell Schadenfreude correctly, but enjoy yours while it lasts. You can just get on with hating BA Pilots for your own malign reasons. My guess is that Mr Walsh has made BA all-but unmanageable for the forseeable future. Have you tried to run a succesful airline on absolutely no pilot morale at all for a significant length of time?
Has Mr Walsh actually got the full consent of BA shareholders to reverse BA into an untried and untested vehicle?
My overall estimate is that Mr Walsh has actually laid the foundations of his own demise here, and that it will be coming back to haunt him far quicker than anyone thinks. Lets see.
Has Mr Walsh actually got the full consent of BA shareholders to reverse BA into an untried and untested vehicle?
My overall estimate is that Mr Walsh has actually laid the foundations of his own demise here, and that it will be coming back to haunt him far quicker than anyone thinks. Lets see.
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I don't believe it was Mr Walsh who threatened strike action and then had to look rather foolish - (on behalf of all UK BALPA members) - by backing down. It wasn't Mr Walsh who has effectively disempowered BALPA - were I a member, I'd be pretty disappointed with British Airways Pilots and also MacAuslan.
Time for a 1% pay rise and a job with OS methinks.
Time for a 1% pay rise and a job with OS methinks.
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Round 1 to BA. Can't say I was anything other than gobsmacked and dismayed at the result but after 24 hours consideration I remembered BASSA were similarly shafted last March only to have BA meekly surrender to their identical demands last month. BA can play hardball with their lawyers but sometimes it's a hollow victory in the courtroom. BASSA learned their lesson, came back on a different tack and found BA were fresh out of clever tricks. There are plenty more strategies to pursue which are tried and tested. Time to regroup and remember that the UK operation remains paramount to BAs success and they need their staff to make it work. In the meantime I'm going to buy some new toys with my rainy day fund and await round 2.
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411a....
You left this part out,
"If you aren't willing to fight the fight, perhaps you are free-loading on the backs of those who will."
So, you are mad at ex-pat BA guys for your perception that they drove down your wages ? It's a tough life for mercenaries ,huh? Did you ever stand for the profession or is it always about your paycheck and let everyone else fend for themselves?
You left this part out,
"If you aren't willing to fight the fight, perhaps you are free-loading on the backs of those who will."
So, you are mad at ex-pat BA guys for your perception that they drove down your wages ? It's a tough life for mercenaries ,huh? Did you ever stand for the profession or is it always about your paycheck and let everyone else fend for themselves?
Join Date: Aug 2004
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This makes all the crowing from the BA guys over the dodgy coup that got rid of Mervyn Granshaw a little silly now. Perhaps it wasn't such a good move eh? I have no doubt that he would have handled this situation much better. The first big test for MacAuslan and this happens.
Reap what you sow and all that.
Reap what you sow and all that.
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"This makes all the crowing from the BA guys over the dodgy coup that got rid of Mervyn Granshaw a little silly now."
Nothing can be bad about getting rid of Mervyn Granshaw and his old cronies.
It was one of the best day's in the history of BALPA.
Nothing can be bad about getting rid of Mervyn Granshaw and his old cronies.
It was one of the best day's in the history of BALPA.
the lunatic fringe
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There is no doubt in my mind that this has been very badly judged by BALPA. However the bitterness, vitriol, and glee displayed at this defeat for BA pilots reflects very poorly on some of you here. It also reflects very poorly on all of us pilots here. The non aviation visitor must read and depart very worried for the mental stability of us all.
Rumours and News has become the place for the ignorant and the bigoted, from all sides, to display there prejudices.
Rumours and News has become the place for the ignorant and the bigoted, from all sides, to display there prejudices.
Controversial, moi?
I have always despaired at the childish and ignorant posting mis-spelt nonsense here but that is the weakness of anonymous public websites.
To claim that Jim MacAuslan is in some way to blame for the withdrawal ignores the way the case developed. Jim took over from Chris Darke. He, in my opinion, was a very poor General Secretary.
Whatever ones personal feelings about Mervyn Granshaw I would be suprised, if he had still been in pace, if he hadn't fully endorsed the BACC's actions. The reason being that OpenLies represents a very great threat to the majority of pilots in Europe.
BALPA's loss in this battle is bad news for the long term Ts & Cs of pilots.
What is interesting is whether OpenLies can hope to become a success now given the massive and continuing hike in oil prices.
To claim that Jim MacAuslan is in some way to blame for the withdrawal ignores the way the case developed. Jim took over from Chris Darke. He, in my opinion, was a very poor General Secretary.
Whatever ones personal feelings about Mervyn Granshaw I would be suprised, if he had still been in pace, if he hadn't fully endorsed the BACC's actions. The reason being that OpenLies represents a very great threat to the majority of pilots in Europe.
BALPA's loss in this battle is bad news for the long term Ts & Cs of pilots.
What is interesting is whether OpenLies can hope to become a success now given the massive and continuing hike in oil prices.
BA is still persuing BALPA for damages over the "fact" that the threat of a strike damaged BA's reputation....Would I be correct in thinking that if BA win that one it would set a precedent in UK law meaning no Union can ever again afford to threaten an airline with Industrial Action?
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Posturing and hot air
If BA thinks that a premium service across the pond is such a good idea, why don't they simply reconfigure a few B757s or 777s and fly them from LHR where they have the slots, the crews etc and presumably, no objection from the pilots?
Just what makes it so commercially attractive to them to start a new airline, effectively, and fly from non UK airports?
I fail to see the purpose of such a questionable enterprise in these increasingly expensive and constrained economic circumstances.
I would hazard a guess that in a few months the whole exercise will result in it being quietly folded up and swept into oblivion, never to see the light of day again.
Result, status quo reigns and lots of money wasted by both BA and BALPA, again.
Just what makes it so commercially attractive to them to start a new airline, effectively, and fly from non UK airports?
I fail to see the purpose of such a questionable enterprise in these increasingly expensive and constrained economic circumstances.
I would hazard a guess that in a few months the whole exercise will result in it being quietly folded up and swept into oblivion, never to see the light of day again.
Result, status quo reigns and lots of money wasted by both BA and BALPA, again.
Last edited by rubik101; 24th May 2008 at 10:41.
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Well Wiggy, if that proves to be the case, I think we'll all thank Tandem, Hand, Mouse, Carnage, Notso etc etc and all their pals for managing to misuse BALPA to the point that it has become ineffective.
However, doubtless it will be all our own fault for failing to man the braziers on BACC's behalf. Doubtless BA are MUCH more likely to give in now. I predict that the legal threat will keep BACC and BALPA back in their box for a considerable while.
I'm not a BALPA member, (funny old thing) but on behalf of colleagues who are, I'd be interested to know just how much of their money has been wasted on this ridiculous posturing - someone suggested a separate union for BA; sounds like a good idea to me.......AFTER they repay BALPA costs!
However, doubtless it will be all our own fault for failing to man the braziers on BACC's behalf. Doubtless BA are MUCH more likely to give in now. I predict that the legal threat will keep BACC and BALPA back in their box for a considerable while.
I'm not a BALPA member, (funny old thing) but on behalf of colleagues who are, I'd be interested to know just how much of their money has been wasted on this ridiculous posturing - someone suggested a separate union for BA; sounds like a good idea to me.......AFTER they repay BALPA costs!
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Open Skies is here but BA pilots need not be concerned.
The BA track record for losing HUGE!! amounts of money on overseas adventures is unrivalled in the World.
Deutche BA
Air Liberte
except for it's domestic adventures which have also lost HUGE!! amounts of money.
GO
Brithish Airways City Flyer (Mark I)
British Airways City Express later reborn as British Airways Connect
British Airways Highlands Division
British Airways Channel Islands Division
British Airways Regional Division
Cambrian
Northeast
It seems that every new Chief Exec has to have a go at some new Vision of the future... Its a sort of tradition at BA that began with Failing Ayling starting GO , buying Air liberte and starting Deutche BA
...................carried on by Aussi Rod who gave away GO and Deutche BA
but euthanised
Air Liberte ............................................................ ........
he then created British Airways Connect (BACON).
Now we have Willie who has jettisoned BACON and ..... BEHOLD!!!!
OPEN LIES has emerged from the waterpark swamp.
If He thinks the Froggies are going to lie back and think of England whilst he has it away with the French transatlantic traffic "IL REVE".
The only question is.... how long will the condition last before it becomes terminal as the doctors say?
My diagnosis is not very long at 1200 USD a tonne
plus the frogs seem to like their Air France (it must be the food)
"IL REVE" = "he is dreaming" ( for the non froggies )
The BA track record for losing HUGE!! amounts of money on overseas adventures is unrivalled in the World.
Deutche BA
Air Liberte
except for it's domestic adventures which have also lost HUGE!! amounts of money.
GO
Brithish Airways City Flyer (Mark I)
British Airways City Express later reborn as British Airways Connect
British Airways Highlands Division
British Airways Channel Islands Division
British Airways Regional Division
Cambrian
Northeast
It seems that every new Chief Exec has to have a go at some new Vision of the future... Its a sort of tradition at BA that began with Failing Ayling starting GO , buying Air liberte and starting Deutche BA
...................carried on by Aussi Rod who gave away GO and Deutche BA
but euthanised
Air Liberte ............................................................ ........
he then created British Airways Connect (BACON).
Now we have Willie who has jettisoned BACON and ..... BEHOLD!!!!
OPEN LIES has emerged from the waterpark swamp.
If He thinks the Froggies are going to lie back and think of England whilst he has it away with the French transatlantic traffic "IL REVE".
The only question is.... how long will the condition last before it becomes terminal as the doctors say?
My diagnosis is not very long at 1200 USD a tonne
plus the frogs seem to like their Air France (it must be the food)
"IL REVE" = "he is dreaming" ( for the non froggies )
Last edited by WhoopWhoop Whoops; 24th May 2008 at 10:55.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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....and DanAir which was in profit on its scheduled services at the time it became part of BA - and then miraculously became a large drain on the profit line
Before anyone bursts out with 'it was bankrupt', schedules were full and making loads of money. Charter was the 'loser' and the loss of bank credit line the final crunch - but that is another story.
Before anyone bursts out with 'it was bankrupt', schedules were full and making loads of money. Charter was the 'loser' and the loss of bank credit line the final crunch - but that is another story.
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Shoot if you like but I am reliably informed that BALPA have accepted to pay the costs - all of them - the exact amount to be decided at some point in the future.
Doesn't sound like a tactical withdrawal to me. Nice one BALPA - what a fantastic mess
Doesn't sound like a tactical withdrawal to me. Nice one BALPA - what a fantastic mess
Join Date: Apr 1999
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That would be the standard price of discontinuing the case, which would seem to be a lot less than the price of continuing. Ask yourself the following: if BALPA are threatened with an obscure piece of Euro-legislation by your employer, what would you prefer them to do? Take it to court and test if it's valid, or say "Sorry boys, game's up, now bend over"? Those were the only two options. No 'wait and see', no 'let's get a really good lawyer and have a think about it'. This was a case where you put your money where your mouth is or surrender. Which option would you prefer?
I actually think Saint Peters idea of a seperate union for BA is not a bad idea. We'll take 60% of BALPAs assets, which is proportionally less than we've contributed, pay off the legal costs then go our own way. Or perhaps he was thinking we'd just leave him all the money we've contributed in the past and have no access to it?
I actually think Saint Peters idea of a seperate union for BA is not a bad idea. We'll take 60% of BALPAs assets, which is proportionally less than we've contributed, pay off the legal costs then go our own way. Or perhaps he was thinking we'd just leave him all the money we've contributed in the past and have no access to it?
Last edited by Carnage Matey!; 24th May 2008 at 11:52.