French DGAC award English pilot only level 5 English!
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French DGAC award English pilot only level 5 English!
I am an English native speaker, I have no regional accent, I speak grammatically very correctly and clearly.
Yet today I went to Paris to have my English tested by the DGAC. They awarded me level 5!
I know that there is nothing wrong at all with my English - so clearly there is a problem with the test used by the DGAC. The examiner (who was English) told me that I was not the first native English speaker to be awarded less than level 6. Apparently, there was recently a New Zealander who only just reached level 4!
The problem seems to be in the ATC listening comprehension, whereby they play short excerpts of genuine ATC/pilot exchanges, and then the student has to translate a short phrase onto paper. As a native speaker I understood completely both sides of the conversation - but failed because I did not use the exact same words as in the exam. So, for example, if the recording says "turn heading 190, and climb to level 120", and you write "turn heading 190, and climb level 120", you will lose a mark!! Similarly, if on the recording the grammar is incorrect, or slang is used, but you reply in correct grammar, and without slang, then you will be penalised! So if a recording of an american pilot announces "I'm gonna take next left, then taxi up runway Lima", but you write "I am going to take the next left, then taxi up runway Lima", you will be penalised!!!
Even more ironically, although I did all my training in France and now hold a French CPL, I do not speak French to mother tongue standard and probably never will. However, the DGAC have awarded me level 6 French, without ever making me do a test, simply because I have a French licence.
So according to the French government, I speak French better than English!!!
These ICAO language requirements are a real mess!!
Yet today I went to Paris to have my English tested by the DGAC. They awarded me level 5!
I know that there is nothing wrong at all with my English - so clearly there is a problem with the test used by the DGAC. The examiner (who was English) told me that I was not the first native English speaker to be awarded less than level 6. Apparently, there was recently a New Zealander who only just reached level 4!
The problem seems to be in the ATC listening comprehension, whereby they play short excerpts of genuine ATC/pilot exchanges, and then the student has to translate a short phrase onto paper. As a native speaker I understood completely both sides of the conversation - but failed because I did not use the exact same words as in the exam. So, for example, if the recording says "turn heading 190, and climb to level 120", and you write "turn heading 190, and climb level 120", you will lose a mark!! Similarly, if on the recording the grammar is incorrect, or slang is used, but you reply in correct grammar, and without slang, then you will be penalised! So if a recording of an american pilot announces "I'm gonna take next left, then taxi up runway Lima", but you write "I am going to take the next left, then taxi up runway Lima", you will be penalised!!!
Even more ironically, although I did all my training in France and now hold a French CPL, I do not speak French to mother tongue standard and probably never will. However, the DGAC have awarded me level 6 French, without ever making me do a test, simply because I have a French licence.
So according to the French government, I speak French better than English!!!
These ICAO language requirements are a real mess!!
Last edited by richatom; 14th Apr 2008 at 16:33.
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So if a recording of an american pilot announces "I'm gonna take next left, then taxi up runway Lima", but you write "I am going to take the next left, then taxi up runway Lima", you will be penalised!!!
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Surely there must be a process to get re-evaluated, when I took my test there were several test questions you could practice on before taking the actual test, if you do get another test, give it a couple of seconds before you begin your response, make sure the volume level bars are responding properly, good luck.
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The DGAC's efforts to improve the standard of aviation english is laudable, but their implementation is clearly flawed. If the French can award level 6 to any holder of a French license, then why on earth can't a level 6 be awarded to any holder of a British license?
P.P.
P.P.
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If the French can award level 6 to any holder of a French license, then why on earth can't a level 6 be awarded to any holder of a British license?
I know from the examiner that several other English pilots were tested by the DGAC and did not receive level 6, and I read on Pprune of an English pilot in Germany also only receiving level 5. So evidently there is something wrong with the testing procedures.
Dog Tired
I have been asked to award ratings to several foreign pilots recently on the occasion of their LPCs.
Because I (along with everyone else in the UK) have been awarded a provisional 4 (the min reqmt), I am not allowed to rate anyone else because I need a 6 and, even then, can only award 6s because I have not been trained in language assessment (LASOR's words).
When I do my next LPC, how can I get up to 6 if the examiner is in my position?
You couldn't make it up.
By the way, you should be bovvered; if you don't have a 6, you are subject to retest at regular intervals.
f
Because I (along with everyone else in the UK) have been awarded a provisional 4 (the min reqmt), I am not allowed to rate anyone else because I need a 6 and, even then, can only award 6s because I have not been trained in language assessment (LASOR's words).
When I do my next LPC, how can I get up to 6 if the examiner is in my position?
You couldn't make it up.
By the way, you should be bovvered; if you don't have a 6, you are subject to retest at regular intervals.
f
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Because I (along with everyone else in the UK) have been awarded a provisional 4
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I am a RT examiner and have been awarded a provisional 4.
I have been signing out level 6 for the past year or so since the license form changed.
As the previous post said "You couldn't make it up."
I have been signing out level 6 for the past year or so since the license form changed.
As the previous post said "You couldn't make it up."
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Would it be possible for you to upgrade my CAA FRTOL to level 6 then? Can I do the test over the phone from France?
I spent a lot of money today travelling from south of France to Paris for the stupid DGAC exam and I am certainly not going to retake it.
I spent a lot of money today travelling from south of France to Paris for the stupid DGAC exam and I am certainly not going to retake it.
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I am a RT examiner and have been awarded a provisional 4...As the previous post said "You couldn't make it up."
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I hope and pray this stuff never comes to America! The feds have enough to do lately measuring the spacing on wire ties.
There were only 6, yes SIX responses to the CAA's Consultation regarding this lunacy. One of which was mine - I suggested that any UK FRTOL holder should be permitted to self-declare themselves as Level 6, with the usual penalties for making a false declaration....
It was rejected - they left off the part about the penalties in the CRD....
But later I was told that all Examiners would be assumed to hold Level 6 without further formality.
Ironically enough, the person at the Belgrano itself, who told me this had to go for 'language assessment training' because he doesn't hold a FRTOL.
How typical that the UK is making such a bolleaux of this - unlike the USA which has said that, since all FAA ATPL holders were taught in English, ipso facto they must have acceptable Level 6 English.
It was rejected - they left off the part about the penalties in the CRD....
But later I was told that all Examiners would be assumed to hold Level 6 without further formality.
Ironically enough, the person at the Belgrano itself, who told me this had to go for 'language assessment training' because he doesn't hold a FRTOL.
How typical that the UK is making such a bolleaux of this - unlike the USA which has said that, since all FAA ATPL holders were taught in English, ipso facto they must have acceptable Level 6 English.
If the French can award level 6 to any holder of a French license, then why on earth can't a level 6 be awarded to any holder of a British license?
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Level 4, Level 5 or Level 6 - 'Do i look like im bothered'!!
I will be if all airllines take this approach... ( not really, hopefully common sense will prevail after all...)
From British Airways jobs:
Direct Entry Pilot Scheme (Hold Pool) Shorthaul/Longhaul
Ref UKLHR568
Region UK - Heathrow
Location London - Heathrow
Category Technical & Operations
Job Description
Closing Date: 30th April 2008
First Officer
The Direct Entry Pilot Scheme is for experienced high calibre pilots who want to develop their careers with one of the most progressive international airlines in the business.
Requirements
All pilots:
JAA/CAA Class 1 medical
ICAO Level 6 proficiency in English language
You might like to listen to the live ATC feed from the YMML area in about two and a half hours from now, when some of the students get out at YMMB.
I fully support language testing both from an airmanship point of view and simple classroom training.
http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php...ternational-oc
I fully support language testing both from an airmanship point of view and simple classroom training.
http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php...ternational-oc