Arkefly engine flameout 11th April
Join Date: Sep 2004
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yep, you have to remember that ARkefly (TUI Airlines Nederlands is you want to be picky) isn't actually Holland Excel.
Holand Excel closed down by their owners and TUI Airlines Nederlands was started up as a new company by TUI. The aircraft operated by TAN were previously operated by Holland EXcel, but it wasn't a simple TUI purchased the company, it was a new company, the leases were renegotiated, some of the staff were taken from Holland Excel but not all of them, and TAN didn't take over all of the flying that Holland Excel previous did, in the main it took over the TUI flying previously undertaken by Holland Excel.
TAN have has their problems, 3rd party maintenance providers causing significant damage to one aircraft during a major check, ground handlers marshalling an aircraft into a lamp stand as well as other issues with a major maintenance provder, but either way they're not the same airline as Holland Excel. TUI are lucky in that they have 7 airlines in the group (ok 8 at the moment til TOM and FCA merge) and a current fleet of 160 aircraft, which means one airline can often cover for another when it has operational issues, hence the TOM 767s covering a number of TAN flights over the last few months.
Three ageing and unique (to the TUI fleet) B763s doesn't help, although the engines on the TAN 763s are common to the B744 engines that Corsair operate.
Holand Excel closed down by their owners and TUI Airlines Nederlands was started up as a new company by TUI. The aircraft operated by TAN were previously operated by Holland EXcel, but it wasn't a simple TUI purchased the company, it was a new company, the leases were renegotiated, some of the staff were taken from Holland Excel but not all of them, and TAN didn't take over all of the flying that Holland Excel previous did, in the main it took over the TUI flying previously undertaken by Holland Excel.
TAN have has their problems, 3rd party maintenance providers causing significant damage to one aircraft during a major check, ground handlers marshalling an aircraft into a lamp stand as well as other issues with a major maintenance provder, but either way they're not the same airline as Holland Excel. TUI are lucky in that they have 7 airlines in the group (ok 8 at the moment til TOM and FCA merge) and a current fleet of 160 aircraft, which means one airline can often cover for another when it has operational issues, hence the TOM 767s covering a number of TAN flights over the last few months.
Three ageing and unique (to the TUI fleet) B763s doesn't help, although the engines on the TAN 763s are common to the B744 engines that Corsair operate.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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whatever the name is...
whatever the name is...
... it is an airline that I will avoid any way possible.
Knowing what I know about their "on-time-performances" and the hundreds of claims against them because of all these delays is a good reason to not travel on this airline.
However, most Dutch leisure travelers do not have a choice as it usualy is a package holiday with little choice of airlines.
The other choice is Martinair which isn't all too much better either- their ancient 767-300's get tech plenty times as well.
It is airlines like these, and airport(charges) at AMS that make me travel for German airports more and more often!
Better quality at lower prices
KLM-MD11
... it is an airline that I will avoid any way possible.
Knowing what I know about their "on-time-performances" and the hundreds of claims against them because of all these delays is a good reason to not travel on this airline.
However, most Dutch leisure travelers do not have a choice as it usualy is a package holiday with little choice of airlines.
The other choice is Martinair which isn't all too much better either- their ancient 767-300's get tech plenty times as well.
It is airlines like these, and airport(charges) at AMS that make me travel for German airports more and more often!
Better quality at lower prices
KLM-MD11
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I fully agree with what KLM-MD11 has posted. I have had the misfortune of flying with Arkefly various times to AUA, CUN and most recently to NAT. This airline is a disgrace to the TUI group, even the handling agent at AMS admits that they are a poor carrier frequently suffering from long delays and old unreliable aircraft. When faced with a delay situation their customer service representative at the gate was hostile and rude towards the passengers and he spent his time on the phone and laughing with the Menzies personnel, ignoring the pax! It put you in fear of asking questions or for assistance. Onboard the aircraft are dated and dirty, even after their recent refit. My return flight was from NAT was operated by Thomsonfly and the difference was night and day, their crew showed genuine interest in the pax and took their role seriously and the aircraft was clean and well maintained, unlike on OR where the crew were rude and spent most of the flight hidden in the rear galley. Onboard safety is also very poor, with the crew not conducting simple checks such as cabin secure. I would seriously have second thoughts before flying with Arkefly in the future, and like KLM-MD11 take advantage of cheaper fares and better service by flying from Germany.
Join Date: May 2002
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Don't forget, ETOPS 120 was accepted by the CAA out of Holland Exel.
Arkefly did NOT have to prove their ETOPS qualification again starting from zero.
You guys are talking about engine FAILURES, but the ETOPS qualification talks about engine SHUTDOWNS which can be the result of a failure but does not have to be. An engine may have to be shut down for a number of reasons while it still runs (idle). So shutdown 4 in approximately 4 yrs is quite a high number.
Arkefly did NOT have to prove their ETOPS qualification again starting from zero.
You guys are talking about engine FAILURES, but the ETOPS qualification talks about engine SHUTDOWNS which can be the result of a failure but does not have to be. An engine may have to be shut down for a number of reasons while it still runs (idle). So shutdown 4 in approximately 4 yrs is quite a high number.
Last edited by GULFPILOT76; 11th May 2008 at 09:22.
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How do their leased airframes compare -
I'm thinking about the aircraft they're leasing out to other airlines?
Is the problem mostly with company procedures or does it also involve maintenance issues which could therefore be an issue to be aware for these operators?
I'm thinking about the aircraft they're leasing out to other airlines?
Is the problem mostly with company procedures or does it also involve maintenance issues which could therefore be an issue to be aware for these operators?
Join Date: May 2002
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Anybody knows a company that has lost etops-approval before ?
Gulf Air lost their ETOPS qualification on the 76 somewhere in the late nineties because of several engine failures that were caused by using the wrong grade engine oil. So the Omani DGCA were friendly enough to grant them 1:15 hrs so they could still do their most important routes. But then Oman was a share holder in GF,......so.....?
Gulf Air lost their ETOPS qualification on the 76 somewhere in the late nineties because of several engine failures that were caused by using the wrong grade engine oil. So the Omani DGCA were friendly enough to grant them 1:15 hrs so they could still do their most important routes. But then Oman was a share holder in GF,......so.....?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Quote:
whatever the name is...
... it is an airline that I will avoid any way possible.
Knowing what I know about their "on-time-performances" and the hundreds of claims against them because of all these delays is a good reason to not travel on this airline.
However, most Dutch leisure travelers do not have a choice as it usualy is a package holiday with little choice of airlines.
The other choice is Martinair which isn't all too much better either- their ancient 767-300's get tech plenty times as well.
It is airlines like these, and airport(charges) at AMS that make me travel for German airports more and more often!
Better quality at lower prices
KLM-MD11
whatever the name is...
... it is an airline that I will avoid any way possible.
Knowing what I know about their "on-time-performances" and the hundreds of claims against them because of all these delays is a good reason to not travel on this airline.
However, most Dutch leisure travelers do not have a choice as it usualy is a package holiday with little choice of airlines.
The other choice is Martinair which isn't all too much better either- their ancient 767-300's get tech plenty times as well.
It is airlines like these, and airport(charges) at AMS that make me travel for German airports more and more often!
Better quality at lower prices
KLM-MD11
Join Date: Oct 2007
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When Holland Exel continued as ArkeFly, people were glad to stay in their jobs , happiness did not last long. Still the same mess, now with a TUI CEO who says: the people in the office work much harder on lower pay and therefore the pilots should keep their mouth shut regarding better terms and conditions.
No wonder the Corsair guys and dolls were not happy at all when TUI got involved in their business hoorah CorsairFly.
With JetairFly in Belgium red-flagged all over, and the only sense-making ThomsonFly now as well forced for redundancies after their failed loco 737 experiment one wonders where it is heading.
ArkeFly only exists to force a low TUI seat-price on the competition in Holland. Just a few TUI aircraft there will do exactly that.
And they are not doing a good job either.
Will TUI continue this mess ?
No wonder the Corsair guys and dolls were not happy at all when TUI got involved in their business hoorah CorsairFly.
With JetairFly in Belgium red-flagged all over, and the only sense-making ThomsonFly now as well forced for redundancies after their failed loco 737 experiment one wonders where it is heading.
ArkeFly only exists to force a low TUI seat-price on the competition in Holland. Just a few TUI aircraft there will do exactly that.
And they are not doing a good job either.
Will TUI continue this mess ?
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Well , it is not really difficult.
With just a few aircraft in a messy operation, ArkeFly can still prevent the competition from dictating higher seat prices.
ArkeFly is tour operator controlled while the competition are real airlines.
And indeed, you're right, the competition (Martinair and Transavia) are much larger and well organised and under a KLM umbrella.
Allthough ArkeFly is a loss making organisation, touroperator TUI is still continuing the operation for the reason mentioned above.
This is not a healthy situation for the airlines but tolerated so far.
How long TUI will sustain the situation might become a valid question.
Especially considering the ongoing shambles of which just a couple are mentioned in the previous posts.
With just a few aircraft in a messy operation, ArkeFly can still prevent the competition from dictating higher seat prices.
ArkeFly is tour operator controlled while the competition are real airlines.
And indeed, you're right, the competition (Martinair and Transavia) are much larger and well organised and under a KLM umbrella.
Allthough ArkeFly is a loss making organisation, touroperator TUI is still continuing the operation for the reason mentioned above.
This is not a healthy situation for the airlines but tolerated so far.
How long TUI will sustain the situation might become a valid question.
Especially considering the ongoing shambles of which just a couple are mentioned in the previous posts.
Join Date: May 2002
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The fact that Arkefly runs this airline for dubious reasons (putting competition under pressure) is very clever, for the time being. I think that in the longer run as you can already see right now the typical aviation hammer will come down with force. AOG's, fuel prices, unhappy staff and incompetent managers to mention a few will take their toll. If you want to make a small fortune in aviation you have to start with a big one. TUI is a TRAVEL company not an airline.
TUI has to put all their airlines directly under TUI AIRLINE management and not interfere. Airline business is airline business and any CEO from the TRAVEL business who thinks he can run an airline will feel the hammer sooner or later.
TUI has to put all their airlines directly under TUI AIRLINE management and not interfere. Airline business is airline business and any CEO from the TRAVEL business who thinks he can run an airline will feel the hammer sooner or later.
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Arkefly may feel that they are providing healthy competition at this time, however in the long run you pay the price for choosing to fly with them. I experienced extremley long delays a few months back when flying to CUR, and I thought that I was doing the right thing flying with them over KLM. In the end the money that I saved over the fare with KLM was spent due to the long delay in the airport and having to buy food and drink and other expenses to keep my family entertained. Arkefly is the poor relation in the TUI airlines group, they appear to do evreything differently from Hapagfly, who are a pleasure to fly with. The Arkefly personnel appear not to be interested, leaving the handling agent Menzies to deal with all the problems and answer all the questions. The Arkefly customer service agent who was present at the gate was not interested in answering questions that the pax had and was extremley hostile towards anyone who approached him. The 767-300 aircraft are in a very bad condition, and most certainly have seen better days. In my opinion Arkefly is a complete joke, and I am surprised that TUI allow such a mismanaged operation to continue to operate. What is the point in having Arkefly personnel at the gate if they are not going to do the job which they are employed to do? Menzies appear to take the brunt of all the problems and questions that the pax ask. Do you think that TUI will allow this type of operation to continue? It is time for some real competition in the Netherlands!! I have always been surprised that Thomas Cook, Neckermann do not set up an airline operating out of AMS. Delays do happen, we all know that, however it is the attitude of the Arkefly personnel mainly their front line staff that caused me to think twice about flying with them again in the future, and I know several people who are of the same opinion.
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It is not a secret that TUI is not very interested anymore in their aviation adv.
Etc, etc, etc. My god, we have an insider all of a sudden who speaks to the board of directors of TUI travel. And one who was most probably at one time pissed of by . . . . . someone, and now the frustration comes out all at ones.
Morse, please,please if you don't know what you are dribbling on about, then. . . . DON'T!!
Greetings, GP76
Etc, etc, etc. My god, we have an insider all of a sudden who speaks to the board of directors of TUI travel. And one who was most probably at one time pissed of by . . . . . someone, and now the frustration comes out all at ones.
Morse, please,please if you don't know what you are dribbling on about, then. . . . DON'T!!
Greetings, GP76