L@ser attacks
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Used to happen Quite a lot in Kuwait OKBK and pilots started to complain about it
they started to take position reports from the Pilots complaining and send Police Choppers to catch the guys
Really very bad and dangerous attitude
they started to take position reports from the Pilots complaining and send Police Choppers to catch the guys
Really very bad and dangerous attitude
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In defence of lasers............
Well I use a penlight laser harmonised to the optics of my telescope as a pointing aid, never felt the need to point it at anything earthbound TBH, don't know if it a "powerful" one but it runs off a single AAA battery.
They are really very useful in the astronomical field insofar it allows pointing without kneeling in freezing winter mud (and that's my back garden)
I have also seen ads for lasers that can ignite matches and pop balloons at distance.
But lets be clear here, it is not the tool but the hand that wields it that is the problem.
They are really very useful in the astronomical field insofar it allows pointing without kneeling in freezing winter mud (and that's my back garden)
I have also seen ads for lasers that can ignite matches and pop balloons at distance.
But lets be clear here, it is not the tool but the hand that wields it that is the problem.
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A Resident boffin (with appropriate boffin qualifications) has crunched some numbers, and essentially, the diameter of the wavelength of the whatever of whatever (clearly as you can see I am an expert in the field), by the time it reaches you even a couple of hundred feet up makes it in all essence just an annoyance rather than a danger. Certainly the likelihood of long term damage to your eyes is very remote.
Of course how much it distracts you at the time is another issue.
And lastly, if they manage to mount a laser on the back of a truck and connect it to the local nuclear power supply may mean that the above is irrelevant too.
Of course how much it distracts you at the time is another issue.
And lastly, if they manage to mount a laser on the back of a truck and connect it to the local nuclear power supply may mean that the above is irrelevant too.
Everything is under control.
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I know in at least one instance in the US the "green" laser was a type used for astronomy -- pointing out objects in the sky to a group, for example. Small, but more powerful than the standard cheap red pen-type laser pointer.
I have no objection to responsible users ---who do scientific or other experimentation with LASER devices--but those who use those devices to endanger air safety---and -- this idiocy expunges in this thread--only stifles--those who use the devices for legitimate/intended/creative purposes
PA
---and -- this idiocy expunges in this thread--only stifles--those who use the devices for legitimate/intended/creative purposesPA
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annoying but only a threat as a distraction
Info below may calm things down a bit..... from company memo
(thanks to a certain Pete W)
Recent media reporting of laser light “attacks” on aircraft has been the subject of tabloid reporting and has been frequent enough to be of some concern to xx Pilots.
Optical masers as they were first called, were developed in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
The first working *laser used a ruby crystal as the resonator cavity that was optically pumped by a very high output xenon flash tube.
Its inventor, the late Dr Theodore Maiman recounted: "One reporter came up to me and asked me about using the laser in developing weapons. I told him I didn't think it very likely.
He asked me if I would deny that the laser could be used that way, and I said no”.
The very next day, all across the USA, headlines shouted: “LA Man Discovers Science- Fiction Death Ray! ” Hence, while laser technology has progressed significantly in the last 50
years, it would seem tabloid journalism standards sadly have not. Lasers are now found in devices as diverse as the IRS systems on the B744 to supermarket checkout scanners.
Tabloid press aside, should you still be concerned about your vision if the aircraft you are operating is illuminated by laser light? The short answer is no.
Contrary to popular belief, all but the most powerful continuous wave lasers give out little more light than a good “Maglite” torch. The laser, however, emits all of its light in a very narrow wavelength, over a pencil thin area and also has a property known as coherence. It is this latter property that allows lasers to be focused with incredible precision hence high power
units (ie. power rating of at least several watts) be used for cutting and etching in industry.
Unlike megawatt, precision gas or ruby laser systems (read: more text-book like properties, not portable and require governmental budgets) used, for example, at professional observatories for lunar ranging experiments, the milliwatt lasers used to capture headlines and “tag” aircraft are, almost without exception, inexpensive diode based green laser “pointers”. Their wavelength (525nm) is very close to that of the peak spectral sensitivity of the human eye at 555nm.
Virtually every green laser pointer uses Diode Pumped Solid State Frequency Doubled (DPSSFD) laser technology. These devices use a “pump” laser diode which has its frequency doubled by a Potassium Titanyl Phosphate, (KTP) crystal inside the laser cavity. The visibility
of these green pointers appears to the eye to be about six or seven times brighter than the older 670nm red diode based laser pointers, rated at the same power output. Diode lasers also lose their coherence at small distances, typically less than a metre.
Beam divergence, or the spot diameter at a distance, of these diode based lasers is a little underwhelming. Without a corrective lens these devices are rather like dim coloured flashlights and have very poor “beam” qualities. A small lens is required to collimate the diode’s output into a usable beam.
Due to their fairly cheap manufacture and lack of precision these lenses typically allow the
beam to diverge about 2mm per metre from the source diode. Hence, at around 500 feet a 1mm beam has diverged to approximately 300mm in diameter.
Let’s assume a “worst case scenario”. Our laser “tagger” has acquired a green hand held laser which is rated at the highest power current technology allows (around 400mw) selling for approximately $A1700.00 (most, however, are less than -one tenth that power level and sell for under about $100).
From before, the spot size at 500 feet is approximately 300mm. The pupil of a dark adapted
human eye is typically 6-7mm in diameter. Hence, the total possible flux that can enter a
Pilot’s eye is around one sixth of a milliwatt. This is about 2.5 times less than continuous
direct exposure to a Class One laser held directly to an eye, while not recommended practice,
is considered to be safe under all conditions. (I have ignored atmospheric scattering and
absorption plus reflection and attenuation losses from flight deck windows, which would
significantly reduce any incoming light).
Of course, a sudden flash of bright green light from the ground could be distracting, and must
not be condoned, but fortunately is no more a “death ray” or “weapon of mass murder” than the Maglite found in many Pilot’s navbags.
A secondary effect of bright light, laser or otherwise, is the temporary bleaching of the photo pigment in the retina. An everyday example of this is after having your picture taken at night,
when you may see the “afterimage” of the photographer’s flashgun etched into your retina for a time.
This physiological reaction is perfectly normal and will pass after a few minutes.
If you are flashed by a laser from the ground I would, however, recommend the following.
1. Do not look directly into the beam.
2. While the possibly of distraction exists, both the power and coherence of green laser
pointers is trivial and it is virtually impossible for your eyes to be injured from an event above an altitude of approximately 250 feet.
3. Continue with normal and safe operation of the aircraft, for example, in a manner similar
to driving at night with an oncoming motor vehicle that does not dip their headlights.
*Laser is an acronym for Light Amplification through Stimulated Emission of Radiation
(thanks to a certain Pete W)
Recent media reporting of laser light “attacks” on aircraft has been the subject of tabloid reporting and has been frequent enough to be of some concern to xx Pilots.
Optical masers as they were first called, were developed in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
The first working *laser used a ruby crystal as the resonator cavity that was optically pumped by a very high output xenon flash tube.
Its inventor, the late Dr Theodore Maiman recounted: "One reporter came up to me and asked me about using the laser in developing weapons. I told him I didn't think it very likely.
He asked me if I would deny that the laser could be used that way, and I said no”.
The very next day, all across the USA, headlines shouted: “LA Man Discovers Science- Fiction Death Ray! ” Hence, while laser technology has progressed significantly in the last 50
years, it would seem tabloid journalism standards sadly have not. Lasers are now found in devices as diverse as the IRS systems on the B744 to supermarket checkout scanners.
Tabloid press aside, should you still be concerned about your vision if the aircraft you are operating is illuminated by laser light? The short answer is no.
Contrary to popular belief, all but the most powerful continuous wave lasers give out little more light than a good “Maglite” torch. The laser, however, emits all of its light in a very narrow wavelength, over a pencil thin area and also has a property known as coherence. It is this latter property that allows lasers to be focused with incredible precision hence high power
units (ie. power rating of at least several watts) be used for cutting and etching in industry.
Unlike megawatt, precision gas or ruby laser systems (read: more text-book like properties, not portable and require governmental budgets) used, for example, at professional observatories for lunar ranging experiments, the milliwatt lasers used to capture headlines and “tag” aircraft are, almost without exception, inexpensive diode based green laser “pointers”. Their wavelength (525nm) is very close to that of the peak spectral sensitivity of the human eye at 555nm.
Virtually every green laser pointer uses Diode Pumped Solid State Frequency Doubled (DPSSFD) laser technology. These devices use a “pump” laser diode which has its frequency doubled by a Potassium Titanyl Phosphate, (KTP) crystal inside the laser cavity. The visibility
of these green pointers appears to the eye to be about six or seven times brighter than the older 670nm red diode based laser pointers, rated at the same power output. Diode lasers also lose their coherence at small distances, typically less than a metre.
Beam divergence, or the spot diameter at a distance, of these diode based lasers is a little underwhelming. Without a corrective lens these devices are rather like dim coloured flashlights and have very poor “beam” qualities. A small lens is required to collimate the diode’s output into a usable beam.
Due to their fairly cheap manufacture and lack of precision these lenses typically allow the
beam to diverge about 2mm per metre from the source diode. Hence, at around 500 feet a 1mm beam has diverged to approximately 300mm in diameter.
Let’s assume a “worst case scenario”. Our laser “tagger” has acquired a green hand held laser which is rated at the highest power current technology allows (around 400mw) selling for approximately $A1700.00 (most, however, are less than -one tenth that power level and sell for under about $100).
From before, the spot size at 500 feet is approximately 300mm. The pupil of a dark adapted
human eye is typically 6-7mm in diameter. Hence, the total possible flux that can enter a
Pilot’s eye is around one sixth of a milliwatt. This is about 2.5 times less than continuous
direct exposure to a Class One laser held directly to an eye, while not recommended practice,
is considered to be safe under all conditions. (I have ignored atmospheric scattering and
absorption plus reflection and attenuation losses from flight deck windows, which would
significantly reduce any incoming light).
Of course, a sudden flash of bright green light from the ground could be distracting, and must
not be condoned, but fortunately is no more a “death ray” or “weapon of mass murder” than the Maglite found in many Pilot’s navbags.
A secondary effect of bright light, laser or otherwise, is the temporary bleaching of the photo pigment in the retina. An everyday example of this is after having your picture taken at night,
when you may see the “afterimage” of the photographer’s flashgun etched into your retina for a time.
This physiological reaction is perfectly normal and will pass after a few minutes.
If you are flashed by a laser from the ground I would, however, recommend the following.
1. Do not look directly into the beam.
2. While the possibly of distraction exists, both the power and coherence of green laser
pointers is trivial and it is virtually impossible for your eyes to be injured from an event above an altitude of approximately 250 feet.
3. Continue with normal and safe operation of the aircraft, for example, in a manner similar
to driving at night with an oncoming motor vehicle that does not dip their headlights.
*Laser is an acronym for Light Amplification through Stimulated Emission of Radiation
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Two years? For aiming at an aircraft below... say 5000'? 15-20 years, for the reasons Andu gives in his post, should be more like it.
Manchester, with its "spotter's beer garden" and the road right alongside the taxiway, comes to mind as a potential problem airport if some group wanted to cause mayhem. These things, freely available to 14 year olds, look like being the near future weapon of choice for people with a political message to make or the mind/maturity of a 14 year old.
gimpgimp, I'm afraid my cynicism is such that I place company assurances like the one above up there alongside long time platitudes like "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you", "Of course I'll still respect you in the morning" and "It's only a cold sore".
Manchester, with its "spotter's beer garden" and the road right alongside the taxiway, comes to mind as a potential problem airport if some group wanted to cause mayhem. These things, freely available to 14 year olds, look like being the near future weapon of choice for people with a political message to make or the mind/maturity of a 14 year old.
gimpgimp, I'm afraid my cynicism is such that I place company assurances like the one above up there alongside long time platitudes like "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you", "Of course I'll still respect you in the morning" and "It's only a cold sore".
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the milliwatt lasers used to capture headlines and “tag” aircraft are, almost without exception, inexpensive diode based green laser “pointers”. Their wavelength (525nm) is very close to that of the peak spectral sensitivity of the human eye at 555nm.
Here's an account of a flash blindness incident involving an amateur astronomer at a star party:
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/...5-01/0019.html
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The laser behind the SS ATIS the other was a rave/nightclub of some sort. In my experience it's usually being caused a lightshow rather than malicious intent. That's not to say people aren't doing it intentionally, but I think a good step would be to crack down on the unintentional too.
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On my first night flight a few years ago I saw an incredibly bright green light from the city, at least 5 miles away. I asked my instructor what the green light was and he looked out to see what I was talking about but it had already gone.
A few weeks later a helicopter reported being blinded by a green laser in the same area. Police were investigating but never caught anyone.
I don't know if this was a cheap pen light or one that will light up a match but I can say it really does blind you. Distracting to say the least. Kills night vision. Lucky enough I was in cruise but on short finals - force a go around at least - at worst....
A few weeks later a helicopter reported being blinded by a green laser in the same area. Police were investigating but never caught anyone.
I don't know if this was a cheap pen light or one that will light up a match but I can say it really does blind you. Distracting to say the least. Kills night vision. Lucky enough I was in cruise but on short finals - force a go around at least - at worst....
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are laser pens (like the sort we used to use in the classroom) really powerful enough to reach an aircraft a couple of thousand feet up?
http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-ai...xplanation.htm
Now if you look at the examples, note near the bottom what a 5mW laser at 350ft can do to your view. Sure, 5mW is a low powered classroom style pointer, and 350ft isn't the kind of distance these attacks (and that's what they are) are operating at.
However, I direct you to places like http://www.wickedlasers.com where you have lasers powerful enough to light matches, pop balloons, etc. Notice you can buy, and very legally in most countries (Australia have now declared all class 3 and 4 lasers illegal, classed as a weapon; class 1 and 2 remain legal and most classroom pointers are class 2) the products on this website. Now notice just how powerful a laser you can buy from placed like wikidlasers. You can buy a 635nm red 500mW (!) laser for a small amount of thousands.
Granted, you'd need some kind of guidance/mounted system to keep the laser trained on a cockpit (impossible to achieve anything more than flashes over the window at any distance with just the hand), but I submit that for a relatively small sum of cash, such a system could be fairly easily implemented.
So, in answer to your question, yes, this can be a huge issue, and could be even worse with a little research and the right know how. And of course, such equipment is so small and trivial to pack away, that by the time the police are even aware there's a problem, the attackers are long gone.
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This is worth a read..
"The Effects of Laser illumination on Operational and Visual Performance of Pilots During Final Approach"
http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/m...media/0409.pdf
It says that "illumination of flight crewmembers with laser radiation > 0.5uW/cm^2 is unacceptable"
If I did the sums right...
A 500mW output laser spread over a 1 meter diameter spot would be around 64uW/cm^2. Thats 128 times the acceptable level.
"The Effects of Laser illumination on Operational and Visual Performance of Pilots During Final Approach"
http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/m...media/0409.pdf
It says that "illumination of flight crewmembers with laser radiation > 0.5uW/cm^2 is unacceptable"
If I did the sums right...
A 500mW output laser spread over a 1 meter diameter spot would be around 64uW/cm^2. Thats 128 times the acceptable level.
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I appreciate the fact that people with a lot more knowledge than me re. Lasers are posting here, but some first hand experience I had years ago seems relevant...
I'm not at all convinced about these pen sized jobs being much of a danger, ( though I don't fancy trying the receiving end ) - but a nasty little fact not much mentioned so far is that deliberate blinding lasers have been around for a long time.
I worked at a test range, recording LGB hits, the target being 'lit' by a designator as used by our & other forces ( and old kit even then ).
I was warned that the thing had a blinding range ( accidental, not it's purpose ) of 9 miles, and I don't think even our Special Forces can carry around a nuclear generator...
Use of the thing was taken very seriously, with it aimed out to sea towards targets, in case the wind blew the target down & the civilians inland got hit.
When my laser detector beeper & display on my monitor showed the operator was doing a quick test firing with men on the target, I had to radio a quick warning & he became less than flavour of the month.
That was a designator, not an actual Pilot Incapacitation Laser, which have also been around for years.
I would never suggest that all these yobs are running around with ex-military kit, but it may be that a few ( terrorists basically + the odd nut, who knows ) are, and meanwhile there might be an unpleasant 'improvement' in civilian kit.
As mentioned before, I initially had bulky protective goggles impractical for a pilot, but was later issued with what looked like very pale green sunglasses.
I expect there's a nasty snag covering all the frequencies, but if they are practical I'd go for the sunglasses !
One other point - some military vehicles, I believe, have detectors to tell if they are being 'lased' - again frequencies may be a snag, and whether it can do anything about it other than warn one is another question.
- I agree more kit one could well do without, and god knows what the cost is, but maybe an application for Army / Police dedicated spotters in problem areas ?
This trend sounds very bad news, some time in the future...
I'm not at all convinced about these pen sized jobs being much of a danger, ( though I don't fancy trying the receiving end ) - but a nasty little fact not much mentioned so far is that deliberate blinding lasers have been around for a long time.
I worked at a test range, recording LGB hits, the target being 'lit' by a designator as used by our & other forces ( and old kit even then ).
I was warned that the thing had a blinding range ( accidental, not it's purpose ) of 9 miles, and I don't think even our Special Forces can carry around a nuclear generator...
Use of the thing was taken very seriously, with it aimed out to sea towards targets, in case the wind blew the target down & the civilians inland got hit.
When my laser detector beeper & display on my monitor showed the operator was doing a quick test firing with men on the target, I had to radio a quick warning & he became less than flavour of the month.
That was a designator, not an actual Pilot Incapacitation Laser, which have also been around for years.
I would never suggest that all these yobs are running around with ex-military kit, but it may be that a few ( terrorists basically + the odd nut, who knows ) are, and meanwhile there might be an unpleasant 'improvement' in civilian kit.
As mentioned before, I initially had bulky protective goggles impractical for a pilot, but was later issued with what looked like very pale green sunglasses.
I expect there's a nasty snag covering all the frequencies, but if they are practical I'd go for the sunglasses !
One other point - some military vehicles, I believe, have detectors to tell if they are being 'lased' - again frequencies may be a snag, and whether it can do anything about it other than warn one is another question.
- I agree more kit one could well do without, and god knows what the cost is, but maybe an application for Army / Police dedicated spotters in problem areas ?
This trend sounds very bad news, some time in the future...
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i actually got someone sent down for a good stretch as a result of lasering.
we were just tootling about around stockport when the inside of the aircraft was completely illuminated. a quick search with the IR camera and i tracked the individual down. he was following us round as we orbited him.
when he was arrested (completely oblivious as to how and why) it turned out that his device was a motorcycle headlamp crudely wired up to a large vehicle battery.
was rather pleased when i learnt that several other aircraft had complained of this nuisance (situated just of final approach of 23R at EGCC) and that the individual involved got his comeuppance.
he was charged under the ANO (s.93 i think) for endagering an aircraft. was a nice result, for a change.
TFC
we were just tootling about around stockport when the inside of the aircraft was completely illuminated. a quick search with the IR camera and i tracked the individual down. he was following us round as we orbited him.
when he was arrested (completely oblivious as to how and why) it turned out that his device was a motorcycle headlamp crudely wired up to a large vehicle battery.
was rather pleased when i learnt that several other aircraft had complained of this nuisance (situated just of final approach of 23R at EGCC) and that the individual involved got his comeuppance.
he was charged under the ANO (s.93 i think) for endagering an aircraft. was a nice result, for a change.
TFC
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You can now buy 200mw red lasers online directly from China for £15, from places like dealextreme.com. The problem won't go away: quite the opposite. And as there are now red, green and blue lasers easily available, any attempt in eye protection will end up as it did for an engineer I knew who worked on laser projector TVs. Health and safety told him he had to wear protective glasses with filters tuned to each laser - he pointed out that once you took red, green and blue out of light there wasn't much left to work with.
I can't see any avoiding a ban on devices >5mw, which will be a huge pain for everyone with legitimate uses for the things. The ban won't work, of course (any guesses for how many small packages dealextreme and friends dispatch a day?), and it won't make offenders any easier to find - and there are plenty of laws, as we've seen, that can deal with them already. But there'll be a media panic and a new law rushed through, and that'll be that.
I can't see any avoiding a ban on devices >5mw, which will be a huge pain for everyone with legitimate uses for the things. The ban won't work, of course (any guesses for how many small packages dealextreme and friends dispatch a day?), and it won't make offenders any easier to find - and there are plenty of laws, as we've seen, that can deal with them already. But there'll be a media panic and a new law rushed through, and that'll be that.
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As someone who has been involved with professional laser shows for over 23 years, I really annoys me what some of these "t**ts with laser pointers get up to. I have performed many outdoor laser shows, with large frame argon lasers of up to 12 watts and 7KW Xenon searchlights. However these were carefully staged events.
As a requirement we had to notify the CAA (AUS dept) a minimum to 28 days prior to the show to allow for suitable warning notices to be issued. Failure to do so was in contravention of articles 63 & 110 of the Air Navigation order 2000 and carries an unlimited fine.
These people are also contravening local government H & S laws. It is Illegal to perform a "public show" without the approval of the local Environmental Health officer. Technically, speaking these are "public shows", as they are visible to all. There are plenty of laws to stop these kids, usually its trying to catch them that is the problem.
PS I wouldnt worry too much about blue lasers, thet are even less visible to the eye than red ones are (about 1/4 for the same power) and are still quite expensive to purchase.
As a requirement we had to notify the CAA (AUS dept) a minimum to 28 days prior to the show to allow for suitable warning notices to be issued. Failure to do so was in contravention of articles 63 & 110 of the Air Navigation order 2000 and carries an unlimited fine.
These people are also contravening local government H & S laws. It is Illegal to perform a "public show" without the approval of the local Environmental Health officer. Technically, speaking these are "public shows", as they are visible to all. There are plenty of laws to stop these kids, usually its trying to catch them that is the problem.
PS I wouldnt worry too much about blue lasers, thet are even less visible to the eye than red ones are (about 1/4 for the same power) and are still quite expensive to purchase.