Blair Force One again
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Blair Force One again
From the Daily Telegraph:
. .GORDON BROWN is seeking to block a Whitehall plan to spend £80 million on a new, secure aircraft for Tony Blair and other official VIPs.
The Ministry of Defence wants to commission an armoured Airbus to replace the RAF VC10, which was phased out as a plane for ministerial travel at the end of last year.
Downing Street is understood to be on the side of the MoD, which believes that it needs a plane with the security features not available on commercial aircraft.
But the Chancellor is sceptical about spending money on a project that has been described within Whitehall as "Blair Force One".
The row has broken out at a time when the Treasury is coming under intense pressure from spending ministers. All government departments have to submit their comprehensive spending review bids to the Chancellor by Monday and haggling will be intense until Mr Brown announces his spending decisions in the summer.
For more than 30 years, ministers and members of the Royal Family have been able to use RAF VC10s when flying on missions abroad.
But it takes several days to prepare them for VIP use and, with the RAF also using them for air transport and air-to-air refuelling purposes, the MoD decided at the end of last year that it could no longer spare them for non-military travel.
One alternative is for the Prime Minister and other former VC10 users to charter a commercial airliner. Mr Blair took a BA 777 when he went to Asia at the start of the year and to Africa last week.
But commercial aircraft are not as secure as the VC10, which is equipped with anti-missile defences and armoured plating to protect against small arms fire.
The MoD believes that security concerns have changed since September 11 and that in some circumstances it would not be safe for ministers to travel on a commercial plane.
The Treasury is not keen on financing a new aircraft because it is estimated that it would only be used for about 20 VIP flights a year.
The Chancellor is thought to be arguing that, where there is a security risk, special arrangements could be made. When Mr Blair flew into Afghanistan last month, his party used an RAF Hercules.
The proposal is also not being supported by the Royal Household. The Queen and other royal users would have to pay for the plane if they wanted to use it.
Ministers and members of the Royal Family can also use Queen's Flight aircraft for travel. But the Queen's Flight has only small BAe146 and BAe125 aircraft which do not have the range needed for most ministerial journeys.
A Treasury source said: "Presumably this story is linked to next week's deadline for the spending review bids.
"Last time the MoD received its first ever real-terms increase for a decade, which they proclaimed at the time as a huge victory over the parsimonious Treasury."
. .GORDON BROWN is seeking to block a Whitehall plan to spend £80 million on a new, secure aircraft for Tony Blair and other official VIPs.
The Ministry of Defence wants to commission an armoured Airbus to replace the RAF VC10, which was phased out as a plane for ministerial travel at the end of last year.
Downing Street is understood to be on the side of the MoD, which believes that it needs a plane with the security features not available on commercial aircraft.
But the Chancellor is sceptical about spending money on a project that has been described within Whitehall as "Blair Force One".
The row has broken out at a time when the Treasury is coming under intense pressure from spending ministers. All government departments have to submit their comprehensive spending review bids to the Chancellor by Monday and haggling will be intense until Mr Brown announces his spending decisions in the summer.
For more than 30 years, ministers and members of the Royal Family have been able to use RAF VC10s when flying on missions abroad.
But it takes several days to prepare them for VIP use and, with the RAF also using them for air transport and air-to-air refuelling purposes, the MoD decided at the end of last year that it could no longer spare them for non-military travel.
One alternative is for the Prime Minister and other former VC10 users to charter a commercial airliner. Mr Blair took a BA 777 when he went to Asia at the start of the year and to Africa last week.
But commercial aircraft are not as secure as the VC10, which is equipped with anti-missile defences and armoured plating to protect against small arms fire.
The MoD believes that security concerns have changed since September 11 and that in some circumstances it would not be safe for ministers to travel on a commercial plane.
The Treasury is not keen on financing a new aircraft because it is estimated that it would only be used for about 20 VIP flights a year.
The Chancellor is thought to be arguing that, where there is a security risk, special arrangements could be made. When Mr Blair flew into Afghanistan last month, his party used an RAF Hercules.
The proposal is also not being supported by the Royal Household. The Queen and other royal users would have to pay for the plane if they wanted to use it.
Ministers and members of the Royal Family can also use Queen's Flight aircraft for travel. But the Queen's Flight has only small BAe146 and BAe125 aircraft which do not have the range needed for most ministerial journeys.
A Treasury source said: "Presumably this story is linked to next week's deadline for the spending review bids.
"Last time the MoD received its first ever real-terms increase for a decade, which they proclaimed at the time as a huge victory over the parsimonious Treasury."
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If the PM needs secure transport, can't they just shove some anti missile stuff and nice seats on one of the 747-200 that Virgin/BA have in storage. Sorted.
Then we can have a few more nurses for our local babycare unit which was shut the other night with the change from £80mil (sorry Danny, little bit of politics) <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Then we can have a few more nurses for our local babycare unit which was shut the other night with the change from £80mil (sorry Danny, little bit of politics) <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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I'm with the Chancellor on this one.
Tony needs to remember that he is the PM of a small European country, not an international ambassabor.
Come back home and sort out the NHS, railways, crime, etc
Tony needs to remember that he is the PM of a small European country, not an international ambassabor.
Come back home and sort out the NHS, railways, crime, etc
Avoid imitations
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For the first time ever, I agree with Gordon Brown.
Why doesn't "President" Blair ask his close ally, George W for a stealth aircraft.
With any luck he might disappear altogether. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Why doesn't "President" Blair ask his close ally, George W for a stealth aircraft.
With any luck he might disappear altogether. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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Interesting that the VC10 has been phased out as a VIP transport. I'm sure that certain Brize-based personnel would tell you otherwise. The situation is rather different: whilst the Treasury no longer funds the VC10's VIP role, the squadrons are expected to provide one whenever Tony, Gordon et al fancy a spot of international headline making. Not that there is any overstretch to begin with....
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so what makes "tony" more important than the rest of us mere mortals who have to fly around in unarmoured...non missle attack defended a/c.........take ya chances tony same as the rest of us <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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What is goin on? I know when Blair is footing the bill he goes no-frills (I remember the ad Stelios!!) But let the guy at least have some pride with the barge he turns up. After all he is representing us when he is kissing tarmac around the world.
I am sure that if some turbanised mad mullah (probably from the UK) takes a pot shot with some portable SAM then that will sprout a couple of threads on “Rumours and News” with tasteless jokes on “Jet Blast” within the hour.
Anyway what is £80 Million amortised over 30 years ( the VC10’s are even older) in order that PM etal and HRH+corgis and the Greek can have some security and avoid the bucket and sand brigade on a commercial flight. We seem to have soon changed our tune since 9/11.
I could imagine a patriotically Union Jack bedecked A340 taking our football team to Japan/Korea in summer and flying Ryanair back if they lose to Nigeria and Sweden !!! ( Oh no not another swipe at FR Ha Ha!!!)
. .
I am sure that if some turbanised mad mullah (probably from the UK) takes a pot shot with some portable SAM then that will sprout a couple of threads on “Rumours and News” with tasteless jokes on “Jet Blast” within the hour.
Anyway what is £80 Million amortised over 30 years ( the VC10’s are even older) in order that PM etal and HRH+corgis and the Greek can have some security and avoid the bucket and sand brigade on a commercial flight. We seem to have soon changed our tune since 9/11.
I could imagine a patriotically Union Jack bedecked A340 taking our football team to Japan/Korea in summer and flying Ryanair back if they lose to Nigeria and Sweden !!! ( Oh no not another swipe at FR Ha Ha!!!)
. .
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I think that el presidente needs to understand that he IS NOT the Head of State of the United Kingdom but merely an elected official. The MOD should put that money towards purchasing some replacement tanker aircraft for my colleagues and i. If Blair wants to travel let him go by BA! As i for one, along with the vast majortiy of those in my humble organisation, would be happy to see him disappear along with the rest of the Muppet Show!
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Maybe the Queen's Flight should take on some of the Avro RJ100Xs which are homeless at the moment to replace their older BAe 146s.
As for Tony getting a brand-new Airbus, why don't they take on one of BA's surplus 767/777s rather than fork out for a new airframe.
As for Tony getting a brand-new Airbus, why don't they take on one of BA's surplus 767/777s rather than fork out for a new airframe.
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It is ludicrous that El Presidente Grin wants his own plane. I can just imagine the tantrum in Browns office, " But George has one, and he's my best fried" George is the leader of the worlds super power, and his trains run on time" But I want a plane" "And I want adequate resources in the NHS" "Well youve changed your tune, i thought you couldnt give a toss about the NHS" "well things change, I now realise the valuable service the nurses provide" "your BUPA premiums gone up" "look F*** off, your not having a plane unless its a cessna, and John Denver's the pilot"
What you guys really need to sort things out of course, is a Labour Government !!!! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: El Grifo ]</p>
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: El Grifo ]</p>
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Look it is about time that our countries Monarch and the ever would be presidents that have been elected under her got the opportunity to arrive throughout the world with a bit more style.
Blair is travelling far more now than Bush will during his entire reign.
We might not be the Worlds only Super power any more but we are not far from it and at the moment Tony Blair pulls more of a punch than George Bush in the International community.
The Queen and PM need and deserve to have a golden carriage of the Air especially now we are in the 21 st Century.
France, Germany, Russia, Japan and of course the US all have their own long range impressive aircraft and its damm well time that if they have one we should have one as well!!!!!!!!!
. . <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
SB
Blair is travelling far more now than Bush will during his entire reign.
We might not be the Worlds only Super power any more but we are not far from it and at the moment Tony Blair pulls more of a punch than George Bush in the International community.
The Queen and PM need and deserve to have a golden carriage of the Air especially now we are in the 21 st Century.
France, Germany, Russia, Japan and of course the US all have their own long range impressive aircraft and its damm well time that if they have one we should have one as well!!!!!!!!!
. . <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
SB
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They could use the dome as a hangar!!!!!!!!!
<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
<img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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Hmmn £80m eh! I'm sure that would have gone nicely towards keeping 5 Sqn who were doing their bit defending Grinners abode in Downing St over Christmas. As for the 10's they owe this country nothing and personally I think thet're too good for him even at their age. Perhaps a forth hand Tu 154, now were talking! For once Gordon Browns' right.
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Its dificult to soar with eagles when you work FOR turkeys!
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Its dificult to soar with eagles when you work FOR turkeys!
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I have the solution. Blair ('the grinning jackanapes' and his wife the 'wicked witch') should travel with a company whose name fits the bill perfectly.
Monarch airlines Charter executives - are you reading this?
Monarch airlines Charter executives - are you reading this?
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The Head of State has given up her smartly painted blue and white Yacht, releasing lots of Jolly Jack Tars for combat duty in Her Majesty's Grey ships. She has consented to her Queeney Flight being merged with the ministerial mis-mash of No. 32 Metropolitan Communications Squadron down at Northolt. Handing over to civilian maintenance and closing a non-combatant Station releases lots of Brilliant Brycreemers to don combat gear and go hiding in the bushes with their mean and moody Harriers.
So, can this Toni Blur (or whatever his name is)kindly explain why he needs a Presidential Jet now that he's left the hairdressing business to the Guys and gone into politics? If the Head of State doesn't need her own intercontinental jet, then her Prime Minister certainly doesn't. He'll be wanting a Castle to live in next. Oh Lord, I shouln't have said that should I? Lets hope His Happiness doesn't read PPRuNe...
**********************************. .THrough difficulties to the cinema
So, can this Toni Blur (or whatever his name is)kindly explain why he needs a Presidential Jet now that he's left the hairdressing business to the Guys and gone into politics? If the Head of State doesn't need her own intercontinental jet, then her Prime Minister certainly doesn't. He'll be wanting a Castle to live in next. Oh Lord, I shouln't have said that should I? Lets hope His Happiness doesn't read PPRuNe...
**********************************. .THrough difficulties to the cinema
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When I first left the UK to live and work abroad I too was under the impression that I came from a country which although was once a great power was now a poor relation with no real influence in the international arena. That's what the press had us believe in the eighties. . .When I arrived in Bahrain I very quickly came to realise that Great Britain is held in very high esteem by other counties, and I was pleasently surprised by the respect I was offered because I am British. . .Although we have now lost the empire our country was still admired for amongst other things our Royal Family and the tradition and ceremony which accompanies it. . .Part of that tradition was lost when we scrapped the Britania. . .If we as a nation do not respect our leader enough to afford him a specialist aircraft then how can we expect other nations to respect him.. .Britania could easilly have been retained if the invisible benefits could have been taken into consideration. (Many a large export deal was won simply because some bigwig was invited to have dinner aboard)
It is an image thing. If you portray to the outside world that we are a rich powerful successful country who can easily afford to send our leader around in a bit of secure luxury then that is the image which they will accept.
And finally; Tony Blair is the leader of the UK. Not the Queen (Hers is effectively an Honorary position). Whether you like it or not (Personally his politics are very different to mine) he has been elected by the overwhelming majority of our nation. Democracy means we must accept this. Americans all rally around their President and protect him even if they voted for the other guy. . .It's time we started respecting our leader the way they do. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .Give him the bl00dy plane
PS before anyone starts, I do pay taxes in the UK <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
It is an image thing. If you portray to the outside world that we are a rich powerful successful country who can easily afford to send our leader around in a bit of secure luxury then that is the image which they will accept.
And finally; Tony Blair is the leader of the UK. Not the Queen (Hers is effectively an Honorary position). Whether you like it or not (Personally his politics are very different to mine) he has been elected by the overwhelming majority of our nation. Democracy means we must accept this. Americans all rally around their President and protect him even if they voted for the other guy. . .It's time we started respecting our leader the way they do. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .Give him the bl00dy plane
PS before anyone starts, I do pay taxes in the UK <img src="wink.gif" border="0">