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KLM can't find new HYD; India?

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KLM can't find new HYD; India?

Old 28th Mar 2008, 05:48
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From AVweb today. Rather than weather, does this seem more plausible? My bolding.

A mix-up over where to land led to a KLM crew extending its downwind leg a bit -- by about 1,500 miles. It seems the crew, which had launched from Amsterdam, was expecting to land at its usual destination near the city of Hyderabad, in the south of India, but that airport had been closed just hours before. A brand-new airport had opened nearby, but when controllers directed the crew to land there, they declined, saying they hadn't heard about any new airport and weren't authorized by their airline to go there. They flew on to Delhi, but were not allowed to land, so flew on to Mumbai (Bombay) where they finally set down, with their 233 passengers.

The new airport had delayed its opening by a week
. Officials said all airlines had been notified.
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Old 28th Mar 2008, 07:07
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The new airport had delayed its opening by a week. Officials said all airlines had been notified.
Sounds like a classic Indian cock-up to me. They are *dreadfully* incompetent.
 
Old 28th Mar 2008, 07:24
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Incompetent flying dutchmen! Nothing to do with the Indians. Get off your freaking high horse and peddle your bigotry up where the sun doesn't shine!
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Old 28th Mar 2008, 09:27
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WingletMD11 stated clearly what happened. He seems to have firsthand knowledge (read between the lines). Don't quite understand how this thread is deteriorating into mudslinging based on false facts, and inferiority complexes.
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Old 28th Mar 2008, 10:19
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None too smart of the Indian authorities to use the same 3 letter code for the old and the new airport, asking for it really.
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Old 28th Mar 2008, 10:47
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Indian Airport Management

No comment. All right then....chocolate teapot.

The country does have excellent cuisine, though.
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Old 28th Mar 2008, 17:29
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This morning KLM had it sorted and filed a FPL for an MD11 from EHAM - ZZZZ
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 12:30
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KLM, the airline that produces its own A4 size terminal and approach plates that dont fit plate holders, the same plates that you cannot even get them in front of you to read because of the control column?

The very same approach plates that have out of date inaccurate obstacle heights published for EDI - surely they would never get it wrong 'tis not possihble'
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 13:04
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Guess you used an outdated version. Since > 10 years all approach plates are A5 size

Fail to see what EDI has to do with HYD?
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 13:14
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KLM's sid/star/airfield information booklets are A4 size, totally impractical in a small flight deck, the approach plates are A5.

Autofeather is referring to a situation a few years ago when the ex klmuk pilots joined KLC, they had to transfer from aerad plates to KLM plates, when it was pointed out to KLM that the EDI plates were 10 years out of date re-terrain it was met with the typical KLM arrogant reply of "not possible". I bet bottom dollar that KLM do not admit any kind of failing with regard to the Indian airport. its just not the KLM way to ever admit they are wrong.
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 14:17
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Autofeather was talking a.o. about A4 approach plates, which don't exist.

Regarding incorrect (spot?) heights; you can simply submit a correction form. The Nav dept. will then look what is published in the relevant AIP and adjust it. It is obviously not a matter of right or wrong.

Regarding HYD, in general if there is an (operational) incident/accident, it will be investigated by SPL/OI. Only that department will sometimes provide a qualification. Blaming people is not its purpose. Examining processes for improvement, avoiding errors in the future, etc, is. It is only logical that other departments stay silent, since they don't have access to all facts. This is i.m.h.o. not "arrogant" or not willing to "ever admit they are wrong".

Sometimes silly managers do say things they shouldn't have (judge/qualify), but then there is our union which you may have heard of

Now I still fail to see what autofeathers post had to do with HYD.
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 19:50
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Now I still fail to see what autofeathers post had to do with HYD.
My post had everything to with the typical KLM attitude, which could have been part of the problem at HYD, something to which bluepilot refers to quite accurately and clearly From the tone of your post, you post in this forum in the same manner as your employer has clearly trained you to operate in the flight deck.

Regarding your comment about the 'KLM' method of correcting ‘incorrect spot heights’, of course the Nav department should be checking the relevant correct documents and correcting the plates before they are issued to be used in the flight deck. No way should they be relying on the fact that crews will avoid hitting everything on route/approach and then, when they get back to Flat Land, telling the NAV department to check it out!

Just what century do you think you are operating in LLuke?

BTW I was talking about terminal and approach plates and the latter still are delivered in an A4 folder, with much required information printed on the A4 folder and the content thereof - that is again totally impractical.

Bluepilot, KLM will never admit to doing anything wrong, as I said earlier ‘tis not posshible’ and you are right that is the way they operate. Will they ever learn?
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 20:30
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"From the tone of your post"

Sure blame your lack of knowledge and understanding on me?

Regarding the "spot heights", alternatively one could have written an ASR with mandatory reporting if you feel that safety was impaired.

Last time I am gonna say it: "APPROACH PLATES ARE A5 SIZED" They are printed per two on a A4 page, but you are allowed to fold them which makes it...and you know that, unless, ofcourse, you meant the arrival plates.

"Just what century do you think you are operating in LLuke? "

Haha, like I said earlier, almost like we are from different planets.


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Old 29th Mar 2008, 20:30
  #34 (permalink)  
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Nothing to do with the Indians. Get off your freaking high horse and peddle your bigotry up where the sun doesn't shine!
My alleged 'bigotry' is based on EXPERIENCE. Far too much of it sadly. They are utterly useless.
 
Old 29th Mar 2008, 20:52
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He autofeather,trouble spelling schiphol? Why not quit KLC? I am sure everybody would be happy to get rid of you. One cry baby less.
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 21:11
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Indian cuisine

RoyHudd
The country does have excellent cuisine, though.
Have you actually eaten in India other than in a top hotel ? I can assure that the everyday food you'll find makes even English cuisine look good. OTOH, I've eaten some excellent Italian in Mumbai.
 
Old 29th Mar 2008, 22:21
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Uhh...

KLM Chief Pilot, 1977, TENERIFE. If the Captains had exchanged seats, how different would it be: "I'm not landing at an airport I've never heard of". "I'm not taking off on a runway I cannot see."

Last edited by airfoilmod; 29th Mar 2008 at 22:53.
 
Old 29th Mar 2008, 22:58
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LLuke

This is turning into a slanging match which is not what I intended, I made the valid point (in my own mind) that KLM plates were, in my professional opinion, of no use and what is on (some) of them is/was 10 years out of date. When KLM were told the typical KLM ‘not possihble’ attitude was the response.

The plates ARE A4 size as you well know it, 2 plates printed on one page that can be folded in half and that, as you also seem to know, makes an A5 size. Proper plates are A5 size from the start, oh and of course, have the correct data on them – so there is a BIG difference.

The HYD incident could be related to the Nav department, it may not be, I don’t know.

He autofeather,trouble spelling schiphol? Why not quit KLC? I am sure everybody would be happy to get rid of you. One cry baby less
Hey fokkerrules;

1.No, its Flat Land
2.I never worked for KLC, I quit KLCuk.. long ago..
3. Maybe KLM were...
4. Im no cry baby, I stood up and fought our corner...
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 23:00
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There is another option. Maybe the destination was below minima so they diverted and rather incredibly the press got it wrong? Just maybe...

PM
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Old 29th Mar 2008, 23:14
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quote fokkerules:

Hey autofeather,trouble spelling schiphol? Why not quit KLC? I am sure everybody would be happy to get rid of you. One cry baby less

fokkers dont rule they went bust ;-)

A nice attitude for "harmonisation" then, would you like to expand on your discriminatory attitude fokkerules? want all the brits out do you?
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