KLM can't find new HYD; India?
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From AVweb today. Rather than weather, does this seem more plausible? My bolding.
A mix-up over where to land led to a KLM crew extending its downwind leg a bit -- by about 1,500 miles. It seems the crew, which had launched from Amsterdam, was expecting to land at its usual destination near the city of Hyderabad, in the south of India, but that airport had been closed just hours before. A brand-new airport had opened nearby, but when controllers directed the crew to land there, they declined, saying they hadn't heard about any new airport and weren't authorized by their airline to go there. They flew on to Delhi, but were not allowed to land, so flew on to Mumbai (Bombay) where they finally set down, with their 233 passengers.
The new airport had delayed its opening by a week. Officials said all airlines had been notified.
A mix-up over where to land led to a KLM crew extending its downwind leg a bit -- by about 1,500 miles. It seems the crew, which had launched from Amsterdam, was expecting to land at its usual destination near the city of Hyderabad, in the south of India, but that airport had been closed just hours before. A brand-new airport had opened nearby, but when controllers directed the crew to land there, they declined, saying they hadn't heard about any new airport and weren't authorized by their airline to go there. They flew on to Delhi, but were not allowed to land, so flew on to Mumbai (Bombay) where they finally set down, with their 233 passengers.
The new airport had delayed its opening by a week. Officials said all airlines had been notified.
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WingletMD11 stated clearly what happened. He seems to have firsthand knowledge (read between the lines). Don't quite understand how this thread is deteriorating into mudslinging based on false facts, and inferiority complexes.
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KLM, the airline that produces its own A4 size terminal and approach plates that dont fit plate holders, the same plates that you cannot even get them in front of you to read because of the control column?
The very same approach plates that have out of date inaccurate obstacle heights published for EDI - surely they would never get it wrong 'tis not possihble'
The very same approach plates that have out of date inaccurate obstacle heights published for EDI - surely they would never get it wrong 'tis not possihble'
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KLM's sid/star/airfield information booklets are A4 size, totally impractical in a small flight deck, the approach plates are A5.
Autofeather is referring to a situation a few years ago when the ex klmuk pilots joined KLC, they had to transfer from aerad plates to KLM plates, when it was pointed out to KLM that the EDI plates were 10 years out of date re-terrain it was met with the typical KLM arrogant reply of "not possible". I bet bottom dollar that KLM do not admit any kind of failing with regard to the Indian airport. its just not the KLM way to ever admit they are wrong.
Autofeather is referring to a situation a few years ago when the ex klmuk pilots joined KLC, they had to transfer from aerad plates to KLM plates, when it was pointed out to KLM that the EDI plates were 10 years out of date re-terrain it was met with the typical KLM arrogant reply of "not possible". I bet bottom dollar that KLM do not admit any kind of failing with regard to the Indian airport. its just not the KLM way to ever admit they are wrong.
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Autofeather was talking a.o. about A4 approach plates, which don't exist.
Regarding incorrect (spot?) heights; you can simply submit a correction form. The Nav dept. will then look what is published in the relevant AIP and adjust it. It is obviously not a matter of right or wrong.
Regarding HYD, in general if there is an (operational) incident/accident, it will be investigated by SPL/OI. Only that department will sometimes provide a qualification. Blaming people is not its purpose. Examining processes for improvement, avoiding errors in the future, etc, is. It is only logical that other departments stay silent, since they don't have access to all facts. This is i.m.h.o. not "arrogant" or not willing to "ever admit they are wrong".
Sometimes silly managers do say things they shouldn't have (judge/qualify), but then there is our union which you may have heard of
Now I still fail to see what autofeathers post had to do with HYD.
Regarding incorrect (spot?) heights; you can simply submit a correction form. The Nav dept. will then look what is published in the relevant AIP and adjust it. It is obviously not a matter of right or wrong.
Regarding HYD, in general if there is an (operational) incident/accident, it will be investigated by SPL/OI. Only that department will sometimes provide a qualification. Blaming people is not its purpose. Examining processes for improvement, avoiding errors in the future, etc, is. It is only logical that other departments stay silent, since they don't have access to all facts. This is i.m.h.o. not "arrogant" or not willing to "ever admit they are wrong".
Sometimes silly managers do say things they shouldn't have (judge/qualify), but then there is our union which you may have heard of
Now I still fail to see what autofeathers post had to do with HYD.
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Now I still fail to see what autofeathers post had to do with HYD.
Regarding your comment about the 'KLM' method of correcting ‘incorrect spot heights’, of course the Nav department should be checking the relevant correct documents and correcting the plates before they are issued to be used in the flight deck. No way should they be relying on the fact that crews will avoid hitting everything on route/approach and then, when they get back to Flat Land, telling the NAV department to check it out!
Just what century do you think you are operating in LLuke?
BTW I was talking about terminal and approach plates and the latter still are delivered in an A4 folder, with much required information printed on the A4 folder and the content thereof - that is again totally impractical.
Bluepilot, KLM will never admit to doing anything wrong, as I said earlier ‘tis not posshible’ and you are right that is the way they operate. Will they ever learn?
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"From the tone of your post"
Sure blame your lack of knowledge and understanding on me?
Regarding the "spot heights", alternatively one could have written an ASR with mandatory reporting if you feel that safety was impaired.
Last time I am gonna say it: "APPROACH PLATES ARE A5 SIZED" They are printed per two on a A4 page, but you are allowed to fold them which makes it...and you know that, unless, ofcourse, you meant the arrival plates.
"Just what century do you think you are operating in LLuke? "
Haha, like I said earlier, almost like we are from different planets.
Sure blame your lack of knowledge and understanding on me?
Regarding the "spot heights", alternatively one could have written an ASR with mandatory reporting if you feel that safety was impaired.
Last time I am gonna say it: "APPROACH PLATES ARE A5 SIZED" They are printed per two on a A4 page, but you are allowed to fold them which makes it...and you know that, unless, ofcourse, you meant the arrival plates.
"Just what century do you think you are operating in LLuke? "
Haha, like I said earlier, almost like we are from different planets.
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Indian cuisine
RoyHudd
The country does have excellent cuisine, though.
The country does have excellent cuisine, though.
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Uhh...
KLM Chief Pilot, 1977, TENERIFE. If the Captains had exchanged seats, how different would it be: "I'm not landing at an airport I've never heard of". "I'm not taking off on a runway I cannot see."
Last edited by airfoilmod; 29th Mar 2008 at 21:53.
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LLuke
This is turning into a slanging match which is not what I intended, I made the valid point (in my own mind) that KLM plates were, in my professional opinion, of no use and what is on (some) of them is/was 10 years out of date. When KLM were told the typical KLM ‘not possihble’ attitude was the response.
The plates ARE A4 size as you well know it, 2 plates printed on one page that can be folded in half and that, as you also seem to know, makes an A5 size. Proper plates are A5 size from the start, oh and of course, have the correct data on them – so there is a BIG difference.
The HYD incident could be related to the Nav department, it may not be, I don’t know.
Hey fokkerrules;
1.No, its Flat Land
2.I never worked for KLC, I quit KLCuk.. long ago..
3. Maybe KLM were...
4. Im no cry baby, I stood up and fought our corner...
This is turning into a slanging match which is not what I intended, I made the valid point (in my own mind) that KLM plates were, in my professional opinion, of no use and what is on (some) of them is/was 10 years out of date. When KLM were told the typical KLM ‘not possihble’ attitude was the response.
The plates ARE A4 size as you well know it, 2 plates printed on one page that can be folded in half and that, as you also seem to know, makes an A5 size. Proper plates are A5 size from the start, oh and of course, have the correct data on them – so there is a BIG difference.
The HYD incident could be related to the Nav department, it may not be, I don’t know.
He autofeather,trouble spelling schiphol? Why not quit KLC? I am sure everybody would be happy to get rid of you. One cry baby less
1.No, its Flat Land
2.I never worked for KLC, I quit KLCuk.. long ago..
3. Maybe KLM were...
4. Im no cry baby, I stood up and fought our corner...
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quote fokkerules:
Hey autofeather,trouble spelling schiphol? Why not quit KLC? I am sure everybody would be happy to get rid of you. One cry baby less
fokkers dont rule they went bust ;-)
A nice attitude for "harmonisation" then, would you like to expand on your discriminatory attitude fokkerules? want all the brits out do you?
Hey autofeather,trouble spelling schiphol? Why not quit KLC? I am sure everybody would be happy to get rid of you. One cry baby less
fokkers dont rule they went bust ;-)
A nice attitude for "harmonisation" then, would you like to expand on your discriminatory attitude fokkerules? want all the brits out do you?