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Fuel prices soaring, how is your airline coping with that?

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Fuel prices soaring, how is your airline coping with that?

Old 26th Jun 2008, 12:52
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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What do you all think of fuel league tables?
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 13:13
  #42 (permalink)  
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Paddington I don't think 'league' tables are allowed in the UK if names are mentioned. Worked for an airline once where the captain who monitored the fuel would produce a table showing the line of 'mean difference' and a whole bunch of red and green squares to show who was above or below this line. Individuals, by private mail, were told their position on the table but no comments or follow up was offered.
Captains discretion, in all matters, must remain absolute.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 13:23
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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So what did you think of that unnamed league table? In my company Captains can only see their own figures and how they compare to everyone else's (unnamed) figures.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 13:26
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utter rubbish i'm afraid. Fuel tables whilst many might not agree as to their usefulness are certanly not illegal. Who do you think would regulate them? the CAA..don't make me laugh, they will not get involved in company trivia.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 13:33
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Yet again companies are relying on instilling a little fear into employees to carry less and less of the stuff.
If they really cared they should call Flight Crew in for a refresher of the Fuel Policies and make it a day where you learn about the consequences etc etc.
That would be worth while, because some guys DO take the piss.
However fuel league tables are utterly utterly pointless.
What good is it? If you know your Company SOP's then you take the fuel required as you are the first one responsible if it all goes sour.
It's a responsibility a Captain shouldn't and doesn't take lightly and for the company to piss about with these worthless stats.... Very immature
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 14:14
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Fuel League?

Not worth the paper it's printed on.

Everybody fiddles the figures
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 16:26
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We've been asked to use idle reverse only where conditions allow - guidelines are dry runway and 8000' available. Will save 30 - 50 kgs per landing apparantly and accept the increased cost of brake wear. Seems sensibile.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 16:57
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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OK, here is something radical, no I am not aircrew so please do not flame me my comments are not meant to be objectionable. If you want to reduce costs, then surely all up mass is the answer. Most modern transport is furnished to a relatively high standard, with lagging, overhead lockers etc. If you want true LOCO, then should some airlines be taking the ALDI and LIDL idea and stripping out all unnecessary fittings. I have flown in the back of a VC10K and you can see the airframe rivets and all. As, long as the passengers don't freeze and they are safe in the event of a forced landing, should "cattle class" be akin to flying in a DC3? This may well be a bit of a culture shock for some SLF, but they would get use to it and even the travelling public would accept less "furnishings" if they thought they were getting a good deal.

WIDGER
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 18:49
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Good Idea Widger,
I'd start with lifejackets, when have they ever been used??? Carpets, they only make it hard to push the trolley's. A pilot, why two? it only happens now and again that one falls over. Re-enforced Flight Deck Doors, Terrorists can't afford to fly now anyway, pax seats, we can put foam cushions between the seat rails..... I'm on a roll
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 19:03
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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I guess this means that a 'go around' wipes out every bit of profit the flight would have made (assuming a profit was being made in the first place).

That is a nice added pressure to have!!!
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 19:21
  #51 (permalink)  
A4

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Brainstorm,

If I'm about to go around, the last thing on my mind is cost! The first thing on my mind is the safety of the aircraft and it's contents and the next thing is probably going to be figuring out how to prevent it happening again (if it was my fault). If anything, this additional cost "pressure" should concentrate the mind into not requiring a missed approach in the first place - some can't be avoided (ATC indcuced) but some can (unstable).

A4
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 19:33
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Why not take off with nearly empty tanks and then do in-flight re-fuelling?
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 20:36
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Maybe we can connect the cattle class to run the engines
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 20:42
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What?! You mean collect methane from the cattle.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 21:19
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Well said A4, we should all aim to be the best of the best! Can I be your wingman?
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 21:26
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Does anybody have a clue as to how much one ton of kerosene is worth nowadays ????? Or 100 liters ?
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 22:16
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If an airline is wasting money because of any reason, then the people contracted to be in charge of cost management is not doing their job. Saying that the high cost of fuel has taken all by surprise is not common, but fuel has always been one of the higher costs of an airline.

Making proper use of the airplane and its performance is the best I can think of, always thinking on passenger safety first.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 23:49
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have fuel prices really gone up or has the American dollar gone down the tubes? as we've exported all of our intellect and manufacturing---people want gold not paper--paper's flammable


PA
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Old 27th Jun 2008, 08:32
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FRying

About $1250-$1300 a tonne at todays prices, but remember most airline (But not Ryanair, MOL bet on it going down and called it wrong big style) hedge that it to say forward buy for periods up to 18 months in advance.

Southwest (in the Sataes) hedged at $52 a barrel Jet2 at $80 and so on the price to day is around $141!! a bigger problem is currency fluctations as oil is sold in dollars so any weaknes of the puts up the cost of oil, but overall weakness of the dolar means buying oil is cheaper and that in part is why the speculators have pilled in.
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Old 27th Jun 2008, 09:32
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I think we'll see everything possible. one engine taxi , idle reverse only ,review of thrust reduction / acceleration heights , use of GPU/extenal power in lieu of APU on the ground etc etc.

What worries me is how management will endeavour to exert " pressure" on crews and perhaps more importantly how crews will react.

I know many companies keep records ( accounts) of exactly how much additional fuel individual Captains carry. I feel this an unjust cop out and totally untrue reflection of the fuel decision. I think they should look at the fuel left in tanks on chocks on. eg you take 2 tonnes more and land with final reserve. If you had taken flight plan fuel you would clearly have diverted. Instead you completed the mission ! the acknowledgement you get is from some beancounter who says " well on this day the crew took another 2 tonnes , therefore they are inefficient"

I feel most crews cannot take such " lists" seriously. If there was a true reflection on our fuel decisions I feel crews would have more confidence in what the beancounters are saying. Again management you need to give us more information , but you must Compare apples with apples and look deeper into fuel decisions if you are to analyse correctly.
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