GULF AIR foresees TRISTARS,the only way out
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I can see the logic in buying old aeroplanes - so long as they can be kept serviceable.
A new fuel efficient airliner will cost 30times what Gulf are paying for those TriMotors (at least 30 times!) - so that leaves a hell of a lot of cash available for fuel and maintenance.
In these current lean times an expensive expansion plan could be the undoing of your airline (Canada 3000 for example) but if Gulf subsequently find they do not have the trade for all 10 then they can canibalise a few. It is an aeroplane with an impressive safety record, is comfortable and still looks good in a fresh coat of paint.
It's the same logic that says new cars are a bad move - my old MGC never breaks down (it is well seviced) and although it uses more fuel than a BMW Z3 I can run it for 5 years on the depreciation that the Z3 suffers in 1 year. 5:1 - bl@@dy good return in my book.
A new fuel efficient airliner will cost 30times what Gulf are paying for those TriMotors (at least 30 times!) - so that leaves a hell of a lot of cash available for fuel and maintenance.
In these current lean times an expensive expansion plan could be the undoing of your airline (Canada 3000 for example) but if Gulf subsequently find they do not have the trade for all 10 then they can canibalise a few. It is an aeroplane with an impressive safety record, is comfortable and still looks good in a fresh coat of paint.
It's the same logic that says new cars are a bad move - my old MGC never breaks down (it is well seviced) and although it uses more fuel than a BMW Z3 I can run it for 5 years on the depreciation that the Z3 suffers in 1 year. 5:1 - bl@@dy good return in my book.
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Did not Gulf Air sell its only Tristar simulator and cabin mock ups?
If so.. a good deal of long distance crew dead heading and hotel accommodation for all crew members would also be required if this new L1011 fleet is a reality.
If so.. a good deal of long distance crew dead heading and hotel accommodation for all crew members would also be required if this new L1011 fleet is a reality.
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Guys, Thank you for showing interest in GF having TRI STARS ( L1011).But let me tell you that NO TRI STARS will join GULF AIR fleet,there is a lot of morden airplanes in the market, and very cheap to lease them, if we have to relpace our fleet,will be new airplanes from Airbus or BOEING... BUT NOT YET!! 
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scanscanscan - yes, the sim went to Intercredit when they bought the last of the fleet and all the spares. There are, however, other L10 sims operational in BOH, MIA and ATL - plus the TWA one (not sure what happened with that).
As for cabin trainers - just use an airframe!
As for cabin trainers - just use an airframe!
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It is interesting to see all the loving comments by those who flew the Tristar however as a frequent flyer I can say from a pax point of view they are mostly decrepit, clapped out old birds. Give me a 777 anytime rather than a dogeared tired old L1011.
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Ah yes..."give me a 777 anytime......" with engines that go pfffsssst in the night resulting in an offroute landing (recent incidents with SIA come to mind)..Still, the 777 is new, bright and shiney, not "dogeared"...yet.
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From what I have been able to find out it seems that this whole topic was the result of a couple of GF pilots who were ex-Tristar engineers pontificating in a pub downroute.
GF have no plans to buy back Tristars,
as GF-001 states, there are plenty of cheap modern a/c around at the moment.
Bloody good example of how a good rumour placed at the right time can take off though
GF have no plans to buy back Tristars,
as GF-001 states, there are plenty of cheap modern a/c around at the moment.Bloody good example of how a good rumour placed at the right time can take off though
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Sirwa69 - maybe GF isn't interested in resurrecting the L10s, but I do have to say that there has been a huge resurgence of interest in the type from around the world - especially developing nations.
The L10 provides them with ultra-cheap lift and aircraft that are much less 'high tech' (and therefore more likely to be maintainable by locals); are extremely rugged; and most importantly of all are not affected by ETOPS.
Offhand, I can think of more than 50 aircraft that could be made operational again.
The L10 provides them with ultra-cheap lift and aircraft that are much less 'high tech' (and therefore more likely to be maintainable by locals); are extremely rugged; and most importantly of all are not affected by ETOPS.
Offhand, I can think of more than 50 aircraft that could be made operational again.
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Guv'nor you're talking complete bollox. If there has been the alledged 'huge surge in interest' how come nobody has bought one of the 50 bargain and easily reactivated L1011s you have being bulls......g about?
Truth is they are all beyong the grave now. Uneconomic to fly. Uneconomic to return to service.
Values were in the toilet pre September 11. Now they have sunk to scrap only. If you are being offered a L1011 for one million dollars I have to assume that the airline concerned has rather big windows in their office building.
Because they can sure see you coming!
I know where you can buy several tristars with engines and spare parts for less than half that figure.
And still no one is interested.
Quit trying to make the market Guv'nor and get a life.
Truth is they are all beyong the grave now. Uneconomic to fly. Uneconomic to return to service.
Values were in the toilet pre September 11. Now they have sunk to scrap only. If you are being offered a L1011 for one million dollars I have to assume that the airline concerned has rather big windows in their office building.
Because they can sure see you coming!
I know where you can buy several tristars with engines and spare parts for less than half that figure.
And still no one is interested.
Quit trying to make the market Guv'nor and get a life.
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For those of us that have spent time on the Tri-Star, this has been a fun thread, and I for one never thought that Gulf Air would bring them back, but folks, all this childish banter makes reading this forum no fun at all. Bite your tongues, ignore the BS, and show some restraint, PLEASE!
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From what I've heard....and I'm not trying to start a 'war' is that the 777 is indeed built a bit shoddily. Something to do with Industrial relations at the big B.
Rumours are that the birds coming out of Tolouse/Hamburg these days are much better - if they are taken care of! I was on A40-KB about a year ago (a 24 month old 332 of GF) and in the biz cabin there was tech lights, seats and wall fittings!
However, the build quality of the L10 is nothing compared to the DC-10 - an aircraft you could patch up to no end.
Rumours are that the birds coming out of Tolouse/Hamburg these days are much better - if they are taken care of! I was on A40-KB about a year ago (a 24 month old 332 of GF) and in the biz cabin there was tech lights, seats and wall fittings!
However, the build quality of the L10 is nothing compared to the DC-10 - an aircraft you could patch up to no end.
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Peter Bach - with the exception of our former Sabena friend on the first page, this thread is a remarkably well behaved one!
BahrainLad - you're not joking. I was at Gamco earlier this year when one of the ex Delta L15s was undergoing a predelivery C check to Portuguese charter operator Yestours. It was in such great shape mechanically - despite having been stored for over a year - that Yes were able to save nearly US$500,000 on their budget. No corrosion anywhere; no technical snags; the only problems were three slat delaminations (two out of limits, one in limits).
Next to this aircraft was a brand new A330 in one of the special GF schemes. Already two weeks late out of C check, there were still pages of snags outstanding - and they had found a couple of areas of serious corrosion and nearly sixty(!) cracks.
The problem, as it was explained to me, is simple. The L1011 (and the DC10, and early 747s) were designed by hand with sliderules - and therefore everyone built in significant margins of error. Lockheed, for example, recalculated their original design specifications and came up with a revised airframe life of 125,000 hours! On the other hand, modern aircraft are built with CADCAM using the latest supercomputers, and designed to micrometer tolerances. You know that when you have a design life of 20,000 cycles on an A340, on 20,001 the wings will fall off.
In order to save weight, the skins are a fraction of the thickness of those on older generation aircraft. Check it out next time you board an aircraft. Thicker skins = more weight = more fuel to fly around the place = lower payloads and/or range.
Of course, thinner skins = more susceptible to damage/more cracks/more corrosion = higher maintenance costs; but hey, you can't have it all!
411A - the biggest problem with the Delta birds is that they are fully, and I mean fully run out. Airframe. Gear. APU. Engines. Interiors. Add to that the fact that DL don't know what they have in the way of spares, tooling etc and you'll see why I'm still waiting until DDM offers me money to take them away!
BahrainLad - you're not joking. I was at Gamco earlier this year when one of the ex Delta L15s was undergoing a predelivery C check to Portuguese charter operator Yestours. It was in such great shape mechanically - despite having been stored for over a year - that Yes were able to save nearly US$500,000 on their budget. No corrosion anywhere; no technical snags; the only problems were three slat delaminations (two out of limits, one in limits).
Next to this aircraft was a brand new A330 in one of the special GF schemes. Already two weeks late out of C check, there were still pages of snags outstanding - and they had found a couple of areas of serious corrosion and nearly sixty(!) cracks.
The problem, as it was explained to me, is simple. The L1011 (and the DC10, and early 747s) were designed by hand with sliderules - and therefore everyone built in significant margins of error. Lockheed, for example, recalculated their original design specifications and came up with a revised airframe life of 125,000 hours! On the other hand, modern aircraft are built with CADCAM using the latest supercomputers, and designed to micrometer tolerances. You know that when you have a design life of 20,000 cycles on an A340, on 20,001 the wings will fall off.
In order to save weight, the skins are a fraction of the thickness of those on older generation aircraft. Check it out next time you board an aircraft. Thicker skins = more weight = more fuel to fly around the place = lower payloads and/or range.
Of course, thinner skins = more susceptible to damage/more cracks/more corrosion = higher maintenance costs; but hey, you can't have it all!
411A - the biggest problem with the Delta birds is that they are fully, and I mean fully run out. Airframe. Gear. APU. Engines. Interiors. Add to that the fact that DL don't know what they have in the way of spares, tooling etc and you'll see why I'm still waiting until DDM offers me money to take them away!
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411A wise up guy. If the price is low enough of course there will be interest.
Gees, if you pitch them low enough the plane-spotters will buy one but it hardly marks the threshold of a new golden era of L1011 equipped airlines!
Are you a friend of the Guvnor's?
Gees, if you pitch them low enough the plane-spotters will buy one but it hardly marks the threshold of a new golden era of L1011 equipped airlines!
Are you a friend of the Guvnor's?
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PowerRanger - for a consultant you don't seem to be thinking this through!
If the price is low enough, people will buy them. Why? Well, not to part out - L10 spares are already sold by the pound rather than the part number.
They will be sold because it will be worth peoples' while to return them to service.
The return to service of a significant number of L1011s, in my book, does indeed represent a significant improvement on the aircraft's fortunes where until recently the only people actively looking at getting L1011s in the air were 411A and myself.
So yes, I'd be inclined to say - cautiously - that it does indeed appear that the comeback of these magnificent aircraft could well be on the cards.
The coming weeks and months will show whether this is indeed the case!
If the price is low enough, people will buy them. Why? Well, not to part out - L10 spares are already sold by the pound rather than the part number.
They will be sold because it will be worth peoples' while to return them to service.
The return to service of a significant number of L1011s, in my book, does indeed represent a significant improvement on the aircraft's fortunes where until recently the only people actively looking at getting L1011s in the air were 411A and myself.
So yes, I'd be inclined to say - cautiously - that it does indeed appear that the comeback of these magnificent aircraft could well be on the cards.
The coming weeks and months will show whether this is indeed the case!