Bent Fly Star at LGW
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EGYT
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bent Fly Star at LGW
Noticed an Astreaus B738, GSTRH, at LGW today with 3 very large gashes in the front starboard fuselage.
Guess it may have been struck by a vehicle. Looks an expensive repair.
Last seen heading for hangar 6.
Guess it may have been struck by a vehicle. Looks an expensive repair.
Last seen heading for hangar 6.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More than gashes. Try holes. Heard quite serious. In hospital for a month to 6 weeks. Word is towing crew. 700 model. Nice one too.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
Posts: 1,185
Received 4 Likes
on
2 Posts
Whoops, my mistake. Mis identified.
Anyone know how the accident occurred?
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does a towbar 'come adrift' by itself or is it not handled correctly? Does a towbar break by itself or does it get overstressed by careless handling when towing? Towing/pushback accidents are becoming one of the most major hazardous areas of aviation!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: BHX
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Towbars
Rainboe
The biggest hazard for towbars has to be new push back drivers learning to be gentle starting and stopping the push, or trying to change gear when towing. Over time fatigue builds up in the shear pins and eventually one or more say enough is enough. The pins are only normally replaced when they break, rather than after a certain length of time so the only real check they are ok is a visual before pushing or towing.
Of course pushing without a bypass pin installed (on those a/c that need one) has been know to shorten their lives a little as well
The biggest hazard for towbars has to be new push back drivers learning to be gentle starting and stopping the push, or trying to change gear when towing. Over time fatigue builds up in the shear pins and eventually one or more say enough is enough. The pins are only normally replaced when they break, rather than after a certain length of time so the only real check they are ok is a visual before pushing or towing.
Of course pushing without a bypass pin installed (on those a/c that need one) has been know to shorten their lives a little as well
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: .
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or does it fail when during the pushback the pilots touch the brakes?
Or they start taxiing before given the all clear?
Until the facts are known you can blame anyone or anything. Which seems to happen on here more and more nowadays.
Or they start taxiing before given the all clear?
Until the facts are known you can blame anyone or anything. Which seems to happen on here more and more nowadays.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I can confirm 100% that the last pilots to fly it were nowhere near the aeroplane- long gone! This is purely a tow crew and tow bar incident. Looking at the damage, I would guess that the tow was in a right turn when separation occured, and maybe the aeroplane ran onto the tow truck (if it was coloured red). They certainly achieved in absolutely well mullering the fuselage. Two large gaping holes and a long score. As well as frames being repaired, most of the underfuselage almost back to the right engine will have to be re-skinned.
Aeroplanes are not safe left with these cowboys. I look at the speeds these things are dragged around and it's scary. It also appears to be slapdash.
Aeroplanes are not safe left with these cowboys. I look at the speeds these things are dragged around and it's scary. It also appears to be slapdash.
Rotate on this!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 64
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Well I can confirm 100% that the last pilots to fly it were nowhere near the aeroplane- long gone! This is purely a tow crew and tow bar incident. Looking at the damage, I would guess that the tow was in a right turn when separation occured, and maybe the aeroplane ran onto the tow truck (if it was coloured red). They certainly achieved in absolutely well mullering the fuselage. Two large gaping holes and a long score. As well as frames being repaired, most of the underfuselage almost back to the right engine will have to be re-skinned.
Aeroplanes are not safe left with these cowboys. I look at the speeds these things are dragged around and it's scary. It also appears to be slapdash."
If only you had access to the 'Tug Drivers ONLY' forum...
Aeroplanes are not safe left with these cowboys. I look at the speeds these things are dragged around and it's scary. It also appears to be slapdash."
If only you had access to the 'Tug Drivers ONLY' forum...
Who pays for such damage, when the aircraft's crew aren't involved?
Is it purely an airline insurance quote, or could the airline claim back from the handler for repairs plus any other leasing costs for a cover aircraft?
Is it purely an airline insurance quote, or could the airline claim back from the handler for repairs plus any other leasing costs for a cover aircraft?
So what was the brakeman doing whilst this happened?
Dear Rainboe why do you have to be so vitriolic in your critiscm? There are enough pilot error incidents that the noble profession could also be labelled as manned by 'cowboys'.
Dear Rainboe why do you have to be so vitriolic in your critiscm? There are enough pilot error incidents that the noble profession could also be labelled as manned by 'cowboys'.
as we are looking at a repositioning of an empty aircraft, overstressing the shear pins is unlikely, unless in a very tight turn. then both the torque and axial pins would have to shear beafore the tow head detached from the bar. more likely that the pins were damaged by uneaven aprons which can cause the head to splay, breaking all pins, which may not become apparent until the tug turns and the head comes under pressure. BA have a flag that springs up to indicate a pin failure, but this can usually only be seen when pushing back with the driver facing the aircraft. when towing, this flag is not normally a help.
groundhog: pins should be inspected for wear/damage at least at 90 day intervals, but i know many are not. as you say, you just wait until they break.
groundhog: pins should be inspected for wear/damage at least at 90 day intervals, but i know many are not. as you say, you just wait until they break.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Europe
Age: 43
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having been a pushback driver on/off both here and in France for the last 8 years whilst completing my CPL/IR, I have experience of both sides of what has turned into a discussion about 'cowboy' pushback drivers. The attitude of certain flight decks is that they are superior to everyone, because they fly the plane. Don't forget where you started in life, not all of us had rich mummies and daddies, went to OAT and fly just for the distinction of being a pilot. A lot of us have had to struggle and penny pinch our way to the flight deck, working crap hours in all weathers to get into something we truly love.
Anyhow! As was previously stated, shear pins in towbars are only replaced when they break. They can break if you turn the a/c too much, accelerate too hard/fast, brake too hard or if the bypass pin is not in place. Uneven taxiways and drains do not help either.
However, whoever is on the flight deck has an vital part to play, whether it be the pilot or an engineer. On several occaisions, I have asked flight to release the park brake, only to find that in fact the brake is still set, hence BANG! Shear pin gone. (Not a nice situation if you only have one bar for that a/c type and there is no mt guy around!) A friend of mine also had his foot ran over by an Antonov (luckily not one of the biggies!)because the crew hadn't realised that they had rolled forward over 6ft!
The lack of knowledge of handsignals on the flight deck is shocking and I have witnessed crews writing the checks in huge letters "ARE THE CHECKS DONE?" then when asked to release the brakes, they end up opening the window and shouting "What?"
ATC also have a part to play, just last night I heard a tug with a 737 attached to "expedite as fast as the tug can go!" Why give clearance to cross a runway if there was traffic on a 6mile final?
Rant over, just remember we're all on this earth together. What did you learn in CRM? Work together, don't just blame the man at the bottom of the pile.
Anyhow! As was previously stated, shear pins in towbars are only replaced when they break. They can break if you turn the a/c too much, accelerate too hard/fast, brake too hard or if the bypass pin is not in place. Uneven taxiways and drains do not help either.
However, whoever is on the flight deck has an vital part to play, whether it be the pilot or an engineer. On several occaisions, I have asked flight to release the park brake, only to find that in fact the brake is still set, hence BANG! Shear pin gone. (Not a nice situation if you only have one bar for that a/c type and there is no mt guy around!) A friend of mine also had his foot ran over by an Antonov (luckily not one of the biggies!)because the crew hadn't realised that they had rolled forward over 6ft!
The lack of knowledge of handsignals on the flight deck is shocking and I have witnessed crews writing the checks in huge letters "ARE THE CHECKS DONE?" then when asked to release the brakes, they end up opening the window and shouting "What?"
ATC also have a part to play, just last night I heard a tug with a 737 attached to "expedite as fast as the tug can go!" Why give clearance to cross a runway if there was traffic on a 6mile final?
Rant over, just remember we're all on this earth together. What did you learn in CRM? Work together, don't just blame the man at the bottom of the pile.