Pilot Shortage. Fact or fiction?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In a tank
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot Shortage. Fact or fiction?
For some years now Ive heard people talk about pilot shortage. I have a pretty good work myself as a commercial pilot so I have not been seeking a new career. Still I wonder if there is now or forseen a pilot shortage? Any evidence?
Trash du Blanc
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any evidence?
We will also be reviewing experience and booking people in for selection programs on the day, providing they meet our criteria.
You might also want to pass on that we will now accept and review applications from candidates for First Officer positions who do not yet meet our published minimum hours requirements.
Candidates who are up to 500 hours below total and/or multi-engine jet hours are invited to submit their applications and may be offered the opportunity to attend a selection programme in Dubai. Successful candidates must, however, meet published minimum hours requirements prior to joining.
Direct Entry Captain requirements remain unchanged
Any help you can give us would be greatly appreciated!
Donna Rawson
Recruitment Manager - Flight Operations
Human Resources
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our last recruitment resulted in about 15 people being offered jobs and only 6 accepted the offer. Apparently the ones that turned it down had other offers...........Mix of candidates from 300 hr newbies to direct entry captains. I dont think there is a shortage of pilots, there is however, a shortage of good pilots.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: near an airport
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
shortage
There is a shortage in airlines with relatively poor terms and conditions.
No matter whether big or small or airline or corporate. Fact is that most operators are hiring.
No matter whether big or small or airline or corporate. Fact is that most operators are hiring.
There is going to be a shortage, no doubt about that at all.
Large numbers of pilots coming up for retirement,
Large numbers of pilots will be needed for the VLJ expansion. Even if it is only a quarter of what analysts expect VLJs will absorb a lot of pilots,
Vast numbers needed for far East expansion, no way China, for instance, can train half the pilots they are going to need.
I don't know if being a pilot will ever get back to quite the status it used to have but things should definitely get better over the next ten years (subject no major world altering disaster or invention that changes the desire to travel.)
Large numbers of pilots coming up for retirement,
Large numbers of pilots will be needed for the VLJ expansion. Even if it is only a quarter of what analysts expect VLJs will absorb a lot of pilots,
Vast numbers needed for far East expansion, no way China, for instance, can train half the pilots they are going to need.
I don't know if being a pilot will ever get back to quite the status it used to have but things should definitely get better over the next ten years (subject no major world altering disaster or invention that changes the desire to travel.)
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There may not be a shortage but there is a demand for experienced type rated pilots. Trouble is most of the jobs are in airlines you wouldn't work for or too far away.
It was said during a previous 'shortage' in the eighties I think. Pilots would contact an airline only to be told that they already had 500 (or some figure) CVs in their files and they were number 501 to be considered.
Trouble was, all the airlines had the same 500 CVs. Now that was a shortage. I remember Aer Lingus took PPLs they were so desperate
(Obviously they sent them to Oxford or whatever)
It was said during a previous 'shortage' in the eighties I think. Pilots would contact an airline only to be told that they already had 500 (or some figure) CVs in their files and they were number 501 to be considered.
Trouble was, all the airlines had the same 500 CVs. Now that was a shortage. I remember Aer Lingus took PPLs they were so desperate
(Obviously they sent them to Oxford or whatever)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Direct Entry Captain
I thought EK shut down their Direct Entry Captain a long time ago. have they changed their position on this. I was about to board the flight to Dubai when they changed. I still work for UA. Please advise.
Jamie
Jamie
Paxing All Over The World
The voice of doom now, from one who is not in the airline world but has worked in the commercial world for 30 years.
The recession which is now bursting upon the western world will change this problem. Western airlines will be wanting to lose people and the middle eastern and (some) oriental ones, will wish to gain people.
Sorry if that sounds too gloomy, it's from having observed two recessions at first hand that leads me to that point of view.
The recession which is now bursting upon the western world will change this problem. Western airlines will be wanting to lose people and the middle eastern and (some) oriental ones, will wish to gain people.
Sorry if that sounds too gloomy, it's from having observed two recessions at first hand that leads me to that point of view.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Switzerland, Singapore
Posts: 1,309
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Corsair:
No there isn't!
There is a lack of understanding in airliners' managements that you don't need type rated pilots, just experienced pilots. What is the cost of conversion? Two weeks CBT, 10 sim sessions. One aircraft on the ground for 1 day costs more!
There is still the firm opinion around that only type rated pilots are able to do a good job. All these job adds are full of this cr*p. In an ideal world, the pilot shortage would start from the bottom (small airlines with unexperienced FO), because all available experienced pilots would get hired by bigger, better paying airlines, upgrading FOs and train them on bigger aircraft. In our pilot world, the opposite is true: The shortage starts at the top. That's why biggies can still ask for any salary they want. Again, in the ideal world of free trade and travel, the shortage would start in the flying schools, equalizing the costs and salaries throughout the market.
It starts slowly to topple, when some airlines accept non-rated pilots. But they do it merely out of shear desperation. Not because they have understood the system. In doubt, they still hire the less qualified, but rated pilot. Makes me wonder...
Dani
there is a demand for experienced type rated pilots
There is a lack of understanding in airliners' managements that you don't need type rated pilots, just experienced pilots. What is the cost of conversion? Two weeks CBT, 10 sim sessions. One aircraft on the ground for 1 day costs more!
There is still the firm opinion around that only type rated pilots are able to do a good job. All these job adds are full of this cr*p. In an ideal world, the pilot shortage would start from the bottom (small airlines with unexperienced FO), because all available experienced pilots would get hired by bigger, better paying airlines, upgrading FOs and train them on bigger aircraft. In our pilot world, the opposite is true: The shortage starts at the top. That's why biggies can still ask for any salary they want. Again, in the ideal world of free trade and travel, the shortage would start in the flying schools, equalizing the costs and salaries throughout the market.
It starts slowly to topple, when some airlines accept non-rated pilots. But they do it merely out of shear desperation. Not because they have understood the system. In doubt, they still hire the less qualified, but rated pilot. Makes me wonder...
Dani
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Heart of Darkness
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the present time the only shortage is of experienced type-rated pilots.. and the only people struggling are those who offer pathetically low salaries along with generally poor working conditions.. the only people willing to work for them are newly qualified and desperate for hours... they don't hang around long once the hours have piled up and it's interesting to note the the usual supects are the ones always advertising for crew... a couple of operators up here in the north east are constantly advertising for people to act as P1 on a pax carrying part 121 ops, earning around 30k pa... what sort of pilots are they getting ?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: the Metroplex
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly what they pay for.
The pilot shortage is fiction.
The experienced pilot shortage is fact.
Until the younger/newer pilots stop prostituting themselves, there will always be a surplus of pilots.
The question remains: How do you tell a new pilot not to take a low paying, experience building job?
Once we have resolved that dilemma, we will be able to command the proper pay for all levels of pilots.
The pilot shortage is fiction.
The experienced pilot shortage is fact.
Until the younger/newer pilots stop prostituting themselves, there will always be a surplus of pilots.
The question remains: How do you tell a new pilot not to take a low paying, experience building job?
Once we have resolved that dilemma, we will be able to command the proper pay for all levels of pilots.
Trash du Blanc
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't underestimate the impact of the Age 60 change as well.
Pilots entering the bottom of the pipeline can expect to be frozen where they are for 3-5 years when the law changes. That's bound to turn some away.
And for those coming after the change - they just get to start five years later. Same number of jobs, just older pilots filling them, at all levels .
It took me until age 33 before I made a wage big enough for my wife to stay home with our brood. If the rule had changed earlier it would have been 38......
Pilots entering the bottom of the pipeline can expect to be frozen where they are for 3-5 years when the law changes. That's bound to turn some away.
And for those coming after the change - they just get to start five years later. Same number of jobs, just older pilots filling them, at all levels .
It took me until age 33 before I made a wage big enough for my wife to stay home with our brood. If the rule had changed earlier it would have been 38......
Paxing All Over The World
Dani
But - if they get it wrong, and the person does not qualify? The accountants will always go for the easy option of someone that is already qualified. I have seen this in I.T. for 20 years. People who are very experienced and can easily pick up new bits of kit - are not hired above the inexperienced candidate who knows the kit. Thus, the workforce becomes narrower. Expect the same in your world.
Jurassic Jet
You can't! Once again, I have seen this in many other fields where people will work for little or nothing - particularly in areas like film and theatre - just to gain experience. Human nature ensures that each individual will place their needs in front of any greater good for people that they will never meet and cannot know.
There is a lack of understanding in airliners' managements that you don't need type rated pilots, just experienced pilots. What is the cost of conversion? Two weeks CBT, 10 sim sessions. One aircraft on the ground for 1 day costs more!
Jurassic Jet
The question remains: How do you tell a new pilot not to take a low paying, experience building job?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One way to help out the shortage of experienced pilots is to dump the 60 yr rule that exists here in the US.. totally ludicrous... the generation of 60 yr olds today is a wprld apart from the previous generation... I've been flying alongside superbly talented, very fit, bright guys with a wealth of experience numbering 15000+ hrs on heavy jets with a career going back to military fast jets and suddenly on the scrap heap because of a date on their birth certificate...
HUCK:
Peronally I don't care where it leaves you ( or me ) on the upgrade ladder.. I would prefer to concentrate on safety and keep these grossly under-experienced jokers away from the sharp end until they've proven themselves on single crew night-freight for a couple of winters. We now have companies advertising for P2s with as little as 250 hrs... about time the press took this up...
HUCK:
It took me until age 33 before I made a wage big enough for my wife to stay home with our brood. If the rule had changed earlier it would have been 38......
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 74
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking of the age 60 rule, any guesses as to when the law will change in the US? Will it be in effect immeidately after it passes by congress? Or will there be a delay? Any insight?