Two pilots allegedly fell asleep during red-eye flight
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From today's Daily Mail (UK daily newspaper!)
........ The jet was 60 miles from landing at Denver and travelling at at a speed of 608mph - twice the recommended landing approach speed.
It was also at 35000feet - too high to begin it's approach to the landing runway!
Nice picture of an A319 too - didn't know it landed THAT fast or 35,000 feet was too high to start approach - must get the books out again!
Don't you just love reporters!
........ The jet was 60 miles from landing at Denver and travelling at at a speed of 608mph - twice the recommended landing approach speed.
It was also at 35000feet - too high to begin it's approach to the landing runway!
Nice picture of an A319 too - didn't know it landed THAT fast or 35,000 feet was too high to start approach - must get the books out again!
Don't you just love reporters!
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There is not a cockpit crew member that hasn't had their eyes closed sometime during a flight. It just happened to that crew at a very unfortunate time. When I was flying, usually the Captain, or I would have a short "crew seat sleep schedule", it lasted about 15 minutes or so. Then everyone was bright a bushy tailed for the approach where you usually will get killed. I could be wrong but doesn't BA have a similar program?
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Ahem, with kipping pilots in mind, the B747-400 EICAS Message is: PILOT RESPONSE. It comes on after 20 minutes (ish) of cockpit inaction with the engines running. If no pilot responds, then a loud, rapid, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop kicks in. If still no response then all hell lets loose, bells, sirens, at al. It's difficult, nay impossible, to sleep on from the whoop whoop whoop whoop bit - trust me, it's 'kin loud - so, if the pilots fell asleep, the cabin crew fell asleep and all the passengers are asleep, a period of approximately 20 minutes would pass before the pilots would be woken by whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, followed rapidly by, 'Were you asleep?'.... 'er, no!, were you?'. 
nurj
Edited to add, controlled rest is oft used in BA.
nurj
Edited to add, controlled rest is oft used in BA.
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As a young first officer I too had problems staying awake in the wee hours until a senior captain was good enough to let me in on one of the tricks of the trade.
"Feeling sleepy there are we young XL5? Well, autopilot off, thumb in some nose down trim and hand fly. Should you drift off the yoke will slip from your fingers and the free-fall sensation of negative g will immediately bring you fully awake".
Sound advice, and I've successfully used this technique now for many years.
"Feeling sleepy there are we young XL5? Well, autopilot off, thumb in some nose down trim and hand fly. Should you drift off the yoke will slip from your fingers and the free-fall sensation of negative g will immediately bring you fully awake".
Sound advice, and I've successfully used this technique now for many years.
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Should you drift off the yoke will slip from your fingers and the free-fall sensation of negative g will immediately bring you fully awake".
short flights long nights
Autopilot off..hand flying..falling asleep??...Dont know about the negative G, but the bang when you hit something might wake you up....!!!!!
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dazdaz
Good one! I like that one!
I going to try that one on some unfortunate sod who even dares to yawn in my presence, on the flight deck. Ha!
Mind you, it could "back fire" if I picked the wrong one, if you get my drift. Well it's not only cabin crew these days is it........
Good one! I like that one!
I going to try that one on some unfortunate sod who even dares to yawn in my presence, on the flight deck. Ha!
Mind you, it could "back fire" if I picked the wrong one, if you get my drift. Well it's not only cabin crew these days is it........
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Unexpected
Sometimes the regulations world has to be protected from the real world, hence their "unexpected" fatigue call. LH flyers in the real world know that fatigue IS expected.
Maybe Sting should realize that in the real world, unfortunate sods will nod off much less yawn in the flight deck. And speaking of unexpected, be prepared for any unexpected reaction to a kiss on the cheek.
But as long as it keeps everyone awake... Better than going through a blow by blow of your last 2 under at the local golf club.
Maybe Sting should realize that in the real world, unfortunate sods will nod off much less yawn in the flight deck. And speaking of unexpected, be prepared for any unexpected reaction to a kiss on the cheek.
But as long as it keeps everyone awake... Better than going through a blow by blow of your last 2 under at the local golf club.
DreamLand:
Normally most pilots are on the centerline. It is because they "fly" glass c0ckpits-so to speak-while the rest of us dinosaurs try to be near it on the VOR course/radial as we grab the big thunderstorm lights switch in order to recheck the "High Charts" with aging eyeballs.
ATC here has become quite spoiled. So many Controllers now have no chance to ride on the jumpseats and compare various aircraft operations, since 9/11.
By the way PPruners,
'Airbubba' has linked us to many excellent aviation topics, among others, i.e. 'Wino' and 'Huck'. As to how they find the sources, I sometimes have no idea.
Airbubba's experiences are also real-not those 'gleaned' from studying textbook academia and rigid SOPA mantras in a soft chair (often as an assumed substitute for solid 'real world' experience).
'Books will not cushion a meeting of rocks and metal', or whatever the late Earnest Gann said in "Fate Is The Hunter."
Normally most pilots are on the centerline. It is because they "fly" glass c0ckpits-so to speak-while the rest of us dinosaurs try to be near it on the VOR course/radial as we grab the big thunderstorm lights switch in order to recheck the "High Charts" with aging eyeballs.
ATC here has become quite spoiled. So many Controllers now have no chance to ride on the jumpseats and compare various aircraft operations, since 9/11.
By the way PPruners,
'Airbubba' has linked us to many excellent aviation topics, among others, i.e. 'Wino' and 'Huck'. As to how they find the sources, I sometimes have no idea.
Airbubba's experiences are also real-not those 'gleaned' from studying textbook academia and rigid SOPA mantras in a soft chair (often as an assumed substitute for solid 'real world' experience).
'Books will not cushion a meeting of rocks and metal', or whatever the late Earnest Gann said in "Fate Is The Hunter."
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Rest is LIFE ! !
Hello all...
I flew 747s for Air France (pax and cargo) for about 6 years, and I remember that the MAIN objective on these long flights was : REST Whenever you can !
We had these NASA naps in our SOP, and it was just that : a standard procedure... NO CRM needed. The captain simply could not refuse ! (of course the timing was agreed upon, but if a captain declared "no naps in my cockpit", the F/O could say something like "really ? well... no F/O either then !")
the object was to be in shape for a safe appproach and landing.
take care...
I flew 747s for Air France (pax and cargo) for about 6 years, and I remember that the MAIN objective on these long flights was : REST Whenever you can !
We had these NASA naps in our SOP, and it was just that : a standard procedure... NO CRM needed. The captain simply could not refuse ! (of course the timing was agreed upon, but if a captain declared "no naps in my cockpit", the F/O could say something like "really ? well... no F/O either then !")
the object was to be in shape for a safe appproach and landing.
take care...
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The 747-400 has a Crew Alertness Monitor. It will generate an Eicas message "Pilot input" required when no input has been detected. A press of the FMC, a brief click of the microphone, or an auto-pilot input clears the message.
777 Does also.
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Our company uses 15 minutes of inactivity before pilot response is activated. Any movement of any switch(Hdg on MCP) or a transmission will reset the system. I believe that if ignored after a brief time lapse an EICAS warning message PILOT RESPONSE is displayed.
Thanks for the CAA reference on In-flight Napping Strategies ( 2003)
If there are other references from the same or any other source they would be appreciated.
Thanks for the CAA reference on In-flight Napping Strategies ( 2003)
If there are other references from the same or any other source they would be appreciated.
