Paphos Controller loses the plot. Wed 17/10
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Paphos Controller loses the plot. Wed 17/10
Just a moan about ATC last Wed in Paphos.
ATC restrictions due to maintenance of Nicosia radar meant that almost all aircraft had delays.
When we were cleared to start and Taxi to runway 29 ATC got confused with ourselves in a bright blue Thomson 757 and a GB Airbus, we were number 1 at the holding point to backtrack.
Finally at the holding point a GB Airbus landed, making it 3 GB's on or around the active runway, the fact that the controller thought that we were a GB didn't help either, after correcting him he duly lined us up and sent us on our way.
After T/O I believe that he then cleared the wrong GB aircraft to Take off whilst he was backtracking towards another GB aircraft lined up and waiting!
Pretty awful stuff really from a confused and overworked controller.
It was obvious to anyone listening that he'd lost the mental picture. GB lads and oursleves were taking extra care and attention and also a good job it was a lovelly clear night.
I'm getting tired of flying into Cyprus, really can be cowboy town at times. Controllers and the frequencies are far too overworked with the same guy doing, Delivery,Ground,Tower and Approach.
Its only a matter of time before there is a serious incident!
ATC restrictions due to maintenance of Nicosia radar meant that almost all aircraft had delays.
When we were cleared to start and Taxi to runway 29 ATC got confused with ourselves in a bright blue Thomson 757 and a GB Airbus, we were number 1 at the holding point to backtrack.
Finally at the holding point a GB Airbus landed, making it 3 GB's on or around the active runway, the fact that the controller thought that we were a GB didn't help either, after correcting him he duly lined us up and sent us on our way.
After T/O I believe that he then cleared the wrong GB aircraft to Take off whilst he was backtracking towards another GB aircraft lined up and waiting!
Pretty awful stuff really from a confused and overworked controller.
It was obvious to anyone listening that he'd lost the mental picture. GB lads and oursleves were taking extra care and attention and also a good job it was a lovelly clear night.
I'm getting tired of flying into Cyprus, really can be cowboy town at times. Controllers and the frequencies are far too overworked with the same guy doing, Delivery,Ground,Tower and Approach.
Its only a matter of time before there is a serious incident!
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sammy shamal
the guy is trying to make the system work even though there are not enough controllers,thats not his fault
What would be your response be if he had said,in the interests of safety there are not enough staff , I am fatigued, I am going home, you are not , spend the night here.
the guy is trying to make the system work even though there are not enough controllers,thats not his fault
What would be your response be if he had said,in the interests of safety there are not enough staff , I am fatigued, I am going home, you are not , spend the night here.
Last edited by opnot; 25th Oct 2007 at 18:58.
the guy is trying to make the system work even though there are not enough controllers,thats not his fault
What would be your response be if he had said,in the interests of safety there are not enough staff , I am fatigued, I am going home, you are not , spend the night here.
What would be your response be if he had said,in the interests of safety there are not enough staff , I am fatigued, I am going home, you are not , spend the night here.
Shaun
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Sadly, in many parts of the world, controllers have a totally misplaced sense of loyalty to management making them work with unacceptable conditions.
If things go wrong, it's them and not management that gets the problems.
In my experience persons that do not see their own limitations are prone to this situation. (Pride?)
If things go wrong, it's them and not management that gets the problems.
In my experience persons that do not see their own limitations are prone to this situation. (Pride?)
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I know what you mean. I've been into PFO 7 times this year (so far) and I can say on every occasion ATC have managed to screw something up. There very good at using ambiguous terminology when giving clearances. R/w 29 inbounds vs. outbounds always seems to confuse them too. The SID's and STAR's are poorly designed. The whole setup needs to be re-thought, esp. the business with ERCAN control. I can't beleive it - two adjacent ATC units that won't talk to one another - its just beyond a joke. When are the CAA going to do something? (or are they going to wait for a smash first?) I suspect the latter...
First time I went there I got a bit of a reaming for failing to grasp the politics involved whilst operating the radio.
For those of you who haven't travelled that way before, don't ever tell Nic that ercan has 'cleared' you anywhere! And ercan is pronounced erJan, but i've always refered to them as 'Ercan Advisory' for best effect!
http://www.jeppesen.com/download/briefbull/fra99-a.pdf ...is the jepp link for the official rules through TOMBI-DASNI etc.
(PS sorry if drifting off topic)
For those of you who haven't travelled that way before, don't ever tell Nic that ercan has 'cleared' you anywhere! And ercan is pronounced erJan, but i've always refered to them as 'Ercan Advisory' for best effect!
http://www.jeppesen.com/download/briefbull/fra99-a.pdf ...is the jepp link for the official rules through TOMBI-DASNI etc.
(PS sorry if drifting off topic)
Last edited by blue up; 26th Oct 2007 at 10:04. Reason: adding jeppy link
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What you have to do there, is to speak to both of them, on two sets. And don't you ever get their call signs confused. Coming form the north, Ankara will hand you to Ercan, and you call them AND Nicosia! If Ercan clears you direct somewhere, you talk to Nicosia about it, using the phrase "The other side has cleared me to..., do you approve?" - I've done it a hundred times on my way to Tel Aviv...
It is a sad situation, and it is correct that nother Cyprus is not recognized as a country by anyone, except the turks. But what are you going to do? - Ignore them?
The biggest shame is, that this Island made it into the EU, with a conflict like that boiling there...
Nic
It is a sad situation, and it is correct that nother Cyprus is not recognized as a country by anyone, except the turks. But what are you going to do? - Ignore them?
The biggest shame is, that this Island made it into the EU, with a conflict like that boiling there...
Nic
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Must be a few newby's flying into Cyprus now...the Ercan situation has been this way since 1975 (yes, that long) so get used to it....besides, it gives something to do for the co-pilot.
Complain to the CAA if you like, nothing will change.
Complain to the CAA if you like, nothing will change.
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Since 1974.
"- two adjacent ATC units that won't talk to one another - its just beyond a joke. "
Take into account the history and politics involve this is the least of the problems in eastern med. Anyway outside europe u see that quite often.
"- two adjacent ATC units that won't talk to one another - its just beyond a joke. "
Take into account the history and politics involve this is the least of the problems in eastern med. Anyway outside europe u see that quite often.
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Getting away from the original thread re-chaos at Paphos ?
I think you will find that the 'shortage' of ATCers in Cyprus is down to 2 reasons ( according to my scources !- Cypriot pilots !) .
Firstly , there ARE normally 3 controllers on duty ( very short duties by the way ) ,1 manfully trying to control the entire ground/tower/approach ( which at Larnaca gets a BIT hectic a few times a week ) , the other 2 sorting the coffee and ashtrays etc while shouting encouragement / instructions to the incumbent ( listen carefully and you can hear it )
Secondly , their union ( very powerful down in Cyprus ) apparently do not want anything to interfere with their overtime payments , so they are not being entirely cooperative in the recruitment effort.Cyprus has a large pool of well educated professionals which are under-utilised and undervalued.
Anyway , traffic will never increase in the Eastern Med so sadly it will never change .
I think you will find that the 'shortage' of ATCers in Cyprus is down to 2 reasons ( according to my scources !- Cypriot pilots !) .
Firstly , there ARE normally 3 controllers on duty ( very short duties by the way ) ,1 manfully trying to control the entire ground/tower/approach ( which at Larnaca gets a BIT hectic a few times a week ) , the other 2 sorting the coffee and ashtrays etc while shouting encouragement / instructions to the incumbent ( listen carefully and you can hear it )
Secondly , their union ( very powerful down in Cyprus ) apparently do not want anything to interfere with their overtime payments , so they are not being entirely cooperative in the recruitment effort.Cyprus has a large pool of well educated professionals which are under-utilised and undervalued.
Anyway , traffic will never increase in the Eastern Med so sadly it will never change .
