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Air Canada plane makes unauthorized runway entry as JAL plane arrives at Kansai

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Air Canada plane makes unauthorized runway entry as JAL plane arrives at Kansai

Old 22nd Oct 2007, 02:05
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Air Canada plane makes unauthorized runway entry as JAL plane arrives at Kansai

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/420407
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 03:25
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Then....If the AC airplane responded to the HOLD at 24L holding point instruction, with the incorrect response, as in "HOLD 24L", meaning "Line-up and hold, 24L", why did the ATC controller not repeat the instruction, as is the norm, until he/she got the correct response?

errr...cheers FD
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 05:49
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I guess that's why some ATC use "Line up and wait" , as opposed to "taxi into position and hold" or "taxi to holding point XX".
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 08:31
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I would interpret "Hold 24L" as taxi to holding point 24L.

Why donīt we all use standard phraseology?!
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 08:45
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Because "into position and hold" IS the standard in the States....
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 09:37
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What on earth does a Canadian aircraft on a Japanese airfield have to do with the States?
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 13:08
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Isn't "Hold short 24L" the proper term to be used?
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 13:16
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English is the language of air traffic control it amazes me is how poor the English of some Air Traffic Controllers can be. Poor English and non-standard phraseology seem to be the norm.
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 13:24
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I would interpret "Hold 24L" as taxi to holding point 24L.

Why donīt we all use standard phraseology?!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Says it all really doesn't it? I wonder how many other "interpretations" occur everyday?
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 14:37
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At least in Japan, they speak English. Come to Quebec CANADA where they babble in French.

Don't let SAFETY get in the way of Politics!

The Skipper on this flight is a 1st rate individual, if it can happen to him...

By the grace of.....
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 18:38
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Thumbs down

They may babble in French but they use proper English when required.
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 19:29
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"A!"

Dat's righ... We say what we 'av to say but wen 'da speaking "engrish" sometime, I tell you, it's too much for sum guy to 'andle. You canot understan' dem if it da only ting in da worl' dat you har trying to do.
A! Toronto is bad henuf, but da Japanese??? Tabernac! Where do day get da lesson for hinglish? Dem guys... sheech! I can 'ardly hunderstan dem at CDG has well! But Aussie! Mon Dieu!
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 20:51
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I truly think that this misunderstanding has nothing to do with Canadians, since I have had a lot of experience flying around with Asian pilots for the last couple of years so I can openly say that an Air Canada pilot would never let his sane mind to wonder consciously, while the Orientals do that on the daily basis (no offence), driving,flying, boating etc...,We are all just different I guess.
One can be a pilot and drive a bicycle and not be able to cut the next corner left and then one can be a plumber and fly a plane...Oh well, which one is the Canadian, hehehehe...?
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 20:53
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Hey Jhonny you are the one doing politic now
The incident did not happen in Quebec but in Japan
I am pretty sure the 2 pilots of Air Canada were anglos and they did not understood proper english
That was a mistake and it can happen to anyone
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 21:15
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They may babble in French but they use proper English when required.

There is nothing wrong with the Japanese ATC English.

At least you can maintain the ENTIRE situationally awareness, by listening to ALL of the ATC conversations.

Speaks volumes that the Japanese speak only English, but not the Quebecer's.

...now back to the topic.

Last edited by Johnny767; 22nd Oct 2007 at 21:31.
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 21:46
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Whatever happened with confirming an instruction with ATC,especially when it involves a lineup clearance in whatever phraseology is used.
In Osaka when a single runway is used they do strive to depart 1 ac per landing but that does not always occur and have held for many minutes
while numerous have landed.
TCAS at this point is usually active and also gives an indication of aircraft on approach.
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 22:01
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Wouldn't it be wise to wait to see the actual R/T exchange before passing judgment ? Then we can see who has said what and how and you can continue condemning people' actions, but knowing the facts this time. .

For me ,aborting APP 1,5 NM out is not what I will call a headlines news item.But in Japan it is obviously.
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Old 23rd Oct 2007, 02:26
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Saniabonani kuntakinte

I think your post is out of place and out of order.

Proper radio procedure has nothing to do with a person's colour.
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Old 23rd Oct 2007, 02:40
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"Hold Position" is commonly used in Japan to Hold Short of an active runway. In Canada it is common to hear the phrase "Position and Hold RW15" for a line up clearance, instead of the proper phraseology "Line up and wait RW15".

I believe this contributed to the error. The pilot heard the word "position" and made an assumption.

If standard R/T is used, with only very specific words for each case, confusion and errors are significantly reduced in this particularily critical phase.

"Hold Short RW15"

"Line up and wait RW15"

"Cleared for takeoff RW15"
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Old 23rd Oct 2007, 05:12
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If standard R/T is used, with only very specific words for each case, confusion and errors are significantly reduced in this particularily critical phase
Agree 2 Cents. Unfortunately too many nationalities believe their way of doing things is the right way and to adopt someone else's way is sign of weakness. Hence, incursions will continue....
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