Palma Fire crew, little too keen?
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What a lot of **** some people do spout! That is right you pitch up do a written exam and then they hand you your uniform and you are set. Do me a favour!
It hasn't been said just who called out the Fire Service guys [and gals]
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Ground damage
Last year in LCA I got a broadside from a rubbish truck that had his roof doors open and drove right onto the static port and an airframe rib. Cue several days in a very nice hotel, the construction of a new rib and several pax-rescue and engineer/parts delivery flights.
After the jolt of impact I remember seeing the fella cheese it off across the apron! I suppose I'd be a bit scared if I'd just knacked a 75.
After the jolt of impact I remember seeing the fella cheese it off across the apron! I suppose I'd be a bit scared if I'd just knacked a 75.
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I can recall an engine in development that had this habit of having a post-shutdown smoke; Customers told us to fix the "not a problem" unless we wanted to provide warranty service on engines shot full of extinguishant. 
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This year I saw smoke coming from the tailpipe of an FR 738. I was boarding using the rear steps and thought it unusual. The aircraft was probably only a few weeks old - might that have had something to do with it? What engines do these 737s have - anyone know?
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The Captain of the aircraft contacted PMI ATC on decent to advise them that the engine would produce a lot of smoke on touch down and that this was normal on this aircraft and was not an emergency! So why the fire brigade took it as an emergency is beyone me. Unless ATC hadn't communicated with the fire brigade. 
Even the pax were told that smoke would come from that engine but that it was normal. The A/C is still in PMI!
Even the pax were told that smoke would come from that engine but that it was normal. The A/C is still in PMI!
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#30
Think you may have just found the cause. Suppose ATC only heard "Smoke" and "emergency" and didn't really listen to all the other words spoken. Hence reason the fire crews were called out.
Think you may have just found the cause. Suppose ATC only heard "Smoke" and "emergency" and didn't really listen to all the other words spoken. Hence reason the fire crews were called out.
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Seat 62k, The engines used on the 73-8(NG family) are cfm56-7B. its not uncommon for them to smoke after shutdown, as an engineer i do my walkrounds usually just after shutdown,and its an annoyance more than anything due to the smell! it really is nothing to be to concerned about.
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Eh????
If you give ATC something to act on, of course they cover their backs...ie call the fire brigade to be on standby. Wouldn't you if some foreign operator comes to your place telling you it's going to be a bit smokey, but it's ok mate.
TCX, pleeease tell me why an engine going to smoke after touchdown??? That's not normal.
I agree that, with the benefit of training, we all know that there's a cockpit procedure for tailpipe fires, but it's easy to see the chain of mis- communication that lead to a guy being primed to fight a fire. I doubt it will be the last time.
TCX, pleeease tell me why an engine going to smoke after touchdown??? That's not normal.
I agree that, with the benefit of training, we all know that there's a cockpit procedure for tailpipe fires, but it's easy to see the chain of mis- communication that lead to a guy being primed to fight a fire. I doubt it will be the last time.
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Fire or not ie smoke or not
Ho,oups Dear,
Poor fire crew at PMI, what they become for a message ?
I would like to ear the tape from the request of the pilot and the ATC just to have the right smell
The word "emergency" accompanied with no or yes look's to be suspicious for a lot of ATC provider and they don't want to take a lot of risk.
They simply press the red "button" and give a minimum of info to the fire crew.
The engine change is probably not the result of the fire crew action but probably more because this engine was at the end of is life.
The pilot take time to annouce there is smoke after an engine shut down
Well done for that but what's the ATC is telling to the Fbrigade
Anyway I will take cona
Poor fire crew at PMI, what they become for a message ?
I would like to ear the tape from the request of the pilot and the ATC just to have the right smell
The word "emergency" accompanied with no or yes look's to be suspicious for a lot of ATC provider and they don't want to take a lot of risk.
They simply press the red "button" and give a minimum of info to the fire crew.
The engine change is probably not the result of the fire crew action but probably more because this engine was at the end of is life.
The pilot take time to annouce there is smoke after an engine shut down
Well done for that but what's the ATC is telling to the Fbrigade
Anyway I will take cona
Humus Motor
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Since you asked - the going rate for an RB211 overhaul is around the $5 million mark. RB211s do occasionally smoke after shutdown (but only outside a public building .. I'll get me coat) and I've never heard of anyone reacting to this with anything more than a polite enquiry before.
I think Super VC10 may well have hit the nail on the head with the ATC message - but I wasn't there so that's pure conjecture.
I think Super VC10 may well have hit the nail on the head with the ATC message - but I wasn't there so that's pure conjecture.
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The engine change is probably not the result of the fire crew action but probably more because this engine was at the end of is life.
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The engine would very definitely have been changed because foam was sprayed through it. I recall when the Delta 777 was given a fire cannon salute with foam instead of water - a bit of it got in the engine, reacted with the engine material and caused major damage, if not a write off.
I disagree with the person who says "that if the fire crew thinks it needs to act they are authorized to do so whatever the protestations of the crew"; I think if the Captain says "do not spray my aircraft" and they do so anyway, then they must have an absolutely irrefutable reason for doing so, and they are in so doing, taking liability upon themselves.
I disagree with the person who says "that if the fire crew thinks it needs to act they are authorized to do so whatever the protestations of the crew"; I think if the Captain says "do not spray my aircraft" and they do so anyway, then they must have an absolutely irrefutable reason for doing so, and they are in so doing, taking liability upon themselves.
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Cheque List
Pleeeese! do us all a favour and concentrate on the job you REALLY do. If you flew planes, you would know that some engines do smoke on shutdown. It may be a few wisps or something more. It depends on the age of the engine. All it is, is oil burning off. Don't pour scorn on people who actually know!!!
Pleeeese! do us all a favour and concentrate on the job you REALLY do. If you flew planes, you would know that some engines do smoke on shutdown. It may be a few wisps or something more. It depends on the age of the engine. All it is, is oil burning off. Don't pour scorn on people who actually know!!!
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FWIW, chatted to one of my mates who works as a firefighter for Aena. He said he was unaware of this incident in Palma, but he said he was not surprised the captain was "climbing up the palm trees. He can say adios to his engine".
He added: "what they 'teach' us [his quotes] in Aena is to let the aircraft fire supression systems have a go at it first, then if that does not work, we try with the PQS [whatever that might be], but if the fire is still going and there is a risk to the aircraft or its passengers, then we attack the fire using all means available. [....] A foam party and a requiem for the engine"
So there you go. None the wiser really.
He added: "what they 'teach' us [his quotes] in Aena is to let the aircraft fire supression systems have a go at it first, then if that does not work, we try with the PQS [whatever that might be], but if the fire is still going and there is a risk to the aircraft or its passengers, then we attack the fire using all means available. [....] A foam party and a requiem for the engine"
So there you go. None the wiser really.
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flyinthesky... I fly planes, maybe not as well as you, for which i am sorry...but I standby my point that I've never seen a healthy engine smoking after TOUCHdown (not SHUTdown). I must try to concentrate harder.
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I am amazed at some of the opinions in this thread. You call the tower to tell them to expect "a lot of smoke on touchdown" and we are led to beleive this is normal?
The fire brigade are concerned about a fire on your engine and the common wisdom is to asume they are useless at their job and you tell them to leave you alone?
What is the no. 1 priority Safety or Cost?
Much better to spray the engine and have to change it and be wrong than not to spray it an be wrong.
It may be a bit of sport to bash people from Overseas but lets be realistic. You all take pride on doing your job well and my guess is that so do fire crews (not just in England but abroad too) These guys must have thought they had a real problem in their hands to spray the engine. By all acounts it doesn't look like it was just a few wisps of smoke. The protestations of the captain are one factor but so is the safety of everybody else on the ramp, other aircraft and the terminal, not to speak of fuel trucks moving about.
The fire brigade are concerned about a fire on your engine and the common wisdom is to asume they are useless at their job and you tell them to leave you alone?
What is the no. 1 priority Safety or Cost?
Much better to spray the engine and have to change it and be wrong than not to spray it an be wrong.
It may be a bit of sport to bash people from Overseas but lets be realistic. You all take pride on doing your job well and my guess is that so do fire crews (not just in England but abroad too) These guys must have thought they had a real problem in their hands to spray the engine. By all acounts it doesn't look like it was just a few wisps of smoke. The protestations of the captain are one factor but so is the safety of everybody else on the ramp, other aircraft and the terminal, not to speak of fuel trucks moving about.