Aer Lingus Pilot suspended in hub dispute
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There is obviously a deliberate (instructed?) avoidance of public discussion of this situation by the parties involved - ie no EI crew response to this thread...
Situation is very serious. One has to repect the wishes of the people involved and I will not get into a speculation game.
From rte.ie this morning
Aer Lingus heading for shutdown?
Thursday, 11 October 2007 10:34
More pilots are expected to be suspended today in the dispute between Aer Lingus and the Impact trade union.
The airline has set a deadline of 1pm on Monday for all pilots to co-operate with its new base in Belfast. If they do not write back confirming their willingness to perform functions to help get the new Belfast base operational they face the suspensions without pay from 3am on Tuesday. So far five pilots have been suspended.
Pilots have described the Aer Lingus threat as madness and an attempt to shut the airline.
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In the absence of negotiations the airline would seem to be sliding towards the prospect of suspending its 480 pilots.
Management will have to decide whether to shut the airline or charter aircraft to carry some passengers.
Last edited by Lord Lardy; 11th Oct 2007 at 10:42. Reason: update on irish news
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I just don't understand Mannion's game plan. As I understand things, and do correct me if I'm wrong, earlier this year staff morale was very high, everyone was generally happy and proud of doing their EI duties, and the company was profitable and planning expansion.
Bets on DM still being CEO at the end of next week?
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The writing was on the wall for the demise of the 'union concept' many years ago, but of course not noticed much at the time.
With the new 'open borders' in the EU, it would be possible to simply replace the unionized pilots and hire new ones...in fact, this may well be the case...eventually.
Expensive in the short term, cost effective in the long, perhaps.
Terms and conditions?
Don't expect much improvement...and look no further than the 'other' Irish airline for confirmation
And then we have MOL in the wings, and with the latest ruling that he cannot be forced to sell his shares, expect more of his 'behind the scenes' manipulating, so quite frankly, the unionized pilots at Aer Lingus really don't stand all that much of a chance...and they can expect no help from the IAA either, as that agency is right and truly in managements pocket.
Sorry boys, the deck is stacked in the companies favor, like it or not.
With the new 'open borders' in the EU, it would be possible to simply replace the unionized pilots and hire new ones...in fact, this may well be the case...eventually.
Expensive in the short term, cost effective in the long, perhaps.
Terms and conditions?
Don't expect much improvement...and look no further than the 'other' Irish airline for confirmation
And then we have MOL in the wings, and with the latest ruling that he cannot be forced to sell his shares, expect more of his 'behind the scenes' manipulating, so quite frankly, the unionized pilots at Aer Lingus really don't stand all that much of a chance...and they can expect no help from the IAA either, as that agency is right and truly in managements pocket.
Sorry boys, the deck is stacked in the companies favor, like it or not.
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411A,
Here we have, for the first time in a long time, A pilots union, being just that, it is disappointing that you are already the harbinger of doom and gloom.
Good luck guys and gals, nice to see you have the guts to stand up for those not yet in the company
. Hope it gets resolved soon. Win and MOL might just lose interest.
Here we have, for the first time in a long time, A pilots union, being just that, it is disappointing that you are already the harbinger of doom and gloom.
Good luck guys and gals, nice to see you have the guts to stand up for those not yet in the company
. Hope it gets resolved soon. Win and MOL might just lose interest.
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it is crucial that this base is set up with the unreserved cooperation of all Aer Lingus Pilots.
ASFKAP, 411a is absolutely right, the IAA is in management pockets and will be no help. That agency has zero interest in standards and safety.
Rumour has it a senior EI manager was booted in the last few days for passing inside information to ryanair. One wonders who else at the top of EI is on micko's payroll. As DM continues to play into micko's hands, it doesn't seem beyond the bounds of possibility that traitors abound.
Once again, good luck to the boys in green. Industry wide unity of this sort would sort out the decline in T&C's very quickly. Respect.
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What great courage and honour the susspended pilots are showing!!!
We are all with you!!!
I SAY ONE OUT ALL OUT!!!
VIVA BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS FOR ALL PILOTS!!!!!
Just hope the company survives though
We are all with you!!!
I SAY ONE OUT ALL OUT!!!
VIVA BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS FOR ALL PILOTS!!!!!
Just hope the company survives though
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411A
You are well off the mark here I'm afraid. Simply put, there is no way that Irish pilots with the national airline will be 'simply replaced' with cheap labour from elsewhere, open borders or otherwise. I do agree with your assessment of the IAA however.
White Knight
Spot on, the Tim Clarke school of management shining through here by the looks of things.
WALK TALL men in green
With the new 'open borders' in the EU, it would be possible to simply replace the unionized pilots and hire new ones
White Knight
DM obviously spent too long in the sandpit and has forgotten about the "union" concept
WALK TALL men in green
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You are well off the mark here I'm afraid. Simply put, there is no way that Irish pilots with the national airline will be 'simply replaced' with cheap labour from elsewhere, open borders or otherwise.
(And on a minor point, EI is the national airline only in our heads. In reality it's just another business now).
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DrKev
Lets hope not, they lost my vote over the Irish ferries scandal, for what it was worth....
I'm still proud of our national airline even though it may be 'just another business' now, and my gut feeling is that they will weather this storm hopefully.
It will be a sad day for all of us when patriotism rides off on the back of the Euro.
In the mean time lads good luck and WALK TALL.
Lets hope not, they lost my vote over the Irish ferries scandal, for what it was worth....
I'm still proud of our national airline even though it may be 'just another business' now, and my gut feeling is that they will weather this storm hopefully.
It will be a sad day for all of us when patriotism rides off on the back of the Euro.
In the mean time lads good luck and WALK TALL.
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As a former employee of the airline and experienced first hand the last major showdown between the pilots and old management which resulted in the closure of the airline for the best part of a long weekend.... I truly hope the pilots BRING THEM TO THEIR KNEES!!! OK, I may not get home from LHR next week after work but Ill gladly suffer the inconvenience while Mannion squirms.
What really annoys me about this new management is the way the company rather blatantly airs its dirty laundry on its own website!!!
What really annoys me about this new management is the way the company rather blatantly airs its dirty laundry on its own website!!!
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no title :-)
how about (harsh i know) agreeing to BFS with mgmt and commence trng newbies,but failing everybody that makes it tru the recruitment ban?
i know it is very tough and harsh on anybody who applies and is sucessful,but anyone aspiring to join EI would be well aware of the situation there at the mo and i hope would not be stupid to apply and be subjected to that.
lots of good guys there who i have alot of respect for and wish them the best, its something that when i was in RYR i never saw=unity and respect for eachother and themselves.
i know it is very tough and harsh on anybody who applies and is sucessful,but anyone aspiring to join EI would be well aware of the situation there at the mo and i hope would not be stupid to apply and be subjected to that.
lots of good guys there who i have alot of respect for and wish them the best, its something that when i was in RYR i never saw=unity and respect for eachother and themselves.
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ASFKAP,
Me thinks you're pretty close to hitting the nail on the head. The other side of the coin is: Where do the pilot's go from here if they are seen to climb down? The past decade has seen them make sacrifices to safeguard their and the company's future. Agreements reached on that basis have been subsequently, conveniently, ignored by management. At the moment AL seems to be enjoying the curse of modern management who seem hell bent on p!$$ing away all the coimmitment, professionalism, good-will inherent in its workforce.
The buck has to stop somewhere. My fear is that, in the current impasse, everyone loses. God help us, as a member of the travelling public .... the alternative is Blue!
Me thinks you're pretty close to hitting the nail on the head. The other side of the coin is: Where do the pilot's go from here if they are seen to climb down? The past decade has seen them make sacrifices to safeguard their and the company's future. Agreements reached on that basis have been subsequently, conveniently, ignored by management. At the moment AL seems to be enjoying the curse of modern management who seem hell bent on p!$$ing away all the coimmitment, professionalism, good-will inherent in its workforce.
The buck has to stop somewhere. My fear is that, in the current impasse, everyone loses. God help us, as a member of the travelling public .... the alternative is Blue!
First, Capt Ted C, your post reeks of naivety...
Second, it has emerged that EI mgmt are prepared for a total shut down in operations of up to two months during this dispute.
It seems that EI mgmt are determined to break with the past at whatever cost.
Others should watch this as no doubt their mgmt are...
Second, it has emerged that EI mgmt are prepared for a total shut down in operations of up to two months during this dispute.
It seems that EI mgmt are determined to break with the past at whatever cost.
Others should watch this as no doubt their mgmt are...
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As far as I can see, AL was doing pretty well just a few months ago. Quite a few A320's and 2 A330's on order as well as a sound balance sheet.
So it's down to the pilots to fight for equal T's and C's within the company. I don't see anything wrong with that . . . do you? At least they are not sitting around like old ASFCAP and accepting any old pile of sh*t thrown at them by management
Then on the other hand it is down to Mr Mannion and the pen pushers and been counters. The ones who are willing to close down the company over something that could have been so easily resolved, ie. ensuring that pilots throughout the company have equal T's and C's. I am sure it would not have been detramental to the company if this simple principal of ensuring equal T's and C's were to be upheld in Belfast? If you can't ensure equal T's and C's when oppening a new base then don't bother opening a new base.
Immagine if Nelson Mandella just sat around and accepted everything apparteit threw at him. Immagine if pilots just sat around and took every pile of sh*t thrown at them?
Mannion and his team can be easily replaced, loads of bean counters in this world, but the Pilots are hard to come by.
All the best to the Pilots who are standing up for their rights. I am sure Nelson Mandela would cheer you guys on!
So it's down to the pilots to fight for equal T's and C's within the company. I don't see anything wrong with that . . . do you? At least they are not sitting around like old ASFCAP and accepting any old pile of sh*t thrown at them by management
Then on the other hand it is down to Mr Mannion and the pen pushers and been counters. The ones who are willing to close down the company over something that could have been so easily resolved, ie. ensuring that pilots throughout the company have equal T's and C's. I am sure it would not have been detramental to the company if this simple principal of ensuring equal T's and C's were to be upheld in Belfast? If you can't ensure equal T's and C's when oppening a new base then don't bother opening a new base.
Immagine if Nelson Mandella just sat around and accepted everything apparteit threw at him. Immagine if pilots just sat around and took every pile of sh*t thrown at them?
Mannion and his team can be easily replaced, loads of bean counters in this world, but the Pilots are hard to come by.
All the best to the Pilots who are standing up for their rights. I am sure Nelson Mandela would cheer you guys on!
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Have been watching this develop through the HKG smog. It appears that Dermot Mannion has decided to go for a make or break. The one chink in his armour is the huge portion of the Dublin Airport workforce that lives in the Irish Prime Ministers home constituency. He can close EI for a few weeks, but Mr Ahearn will draw a swift blade across DMs throat when his loyal voters are left sitting staring at empty Xmas Stockings. Its all OK now Dermot, but Irish politics run deep, the sun in that sandpit overstewed your noodles, they are gone a bit soft.
To the Crews at EI, I hope you will stand firm.
To the Crews at EI, I hope you will stand firm.