Engine fire, St-Louis, plane evacuated,
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similiar to IND?
a delta md88 had a similiar incident at IND...(indianapolis)...though it is too soon to tell if the engines are similiar production run or exactly the same type...but interesting nonetheless. just a couple of days ago.
both appear to be on takeoff...one may or may not be a compressor stall...still too soon for all details.
both appear to be on takeoff...one may or may not be a compressor stall...still too soon for all details.
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So, the engine was on fire when they touched down? If so, This may go well with the uncontrollable engine fire post on Tech log. Good job to all involved.
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video footage here http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?aid=59560&bw=
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The firies can provide guidance to the flight crew as to whether or not they should initiate an Emergency Evacuation, keeping in mind there is usually at least one serious injury as a result of said evac. I would hazard a guess in this situation the Firefighters were confident they would be able to put the fire out promptly, hence no emergency evac took place. Good outcome for all
The pictures show a burn through of the nacelle cowl which kind of defeats the onboard extinguishers. Ths kind of continuous engine related fire has occured in the past when a torchlike burnthrough of the engine cases impinges on the nacelle wall and burns through the nacelle before the fire loop is energized. Shutting off the fuel is absoulutely necessary (once you figure out that something is burning) as well as the need for external help on the ground.
Excellent job by the flightcrew.
By the way, American Airlines never closed their maintenance hangar in Tulsa, whereas several US major airlines outsource all of their heavy maintenance checks.
And if your airline allows heavy maintenance to be performed in another country, only the Supervisor Technician is required to have the US FAA A&P license.
The other (anywhere from 5-80) mechanics/engineers are not required to have the qualification.
By the way, American Airlines never closed their maintenance hangar in Tulsa, whereas several US major airlines outsource all of their heavy maintenance checks.
And if your airline allows heavy maintenance to be performed in another country, only the Supervisor Technician is required to have the US FAA A&P license.
The other (anywhere from 5-80) mechanics/engineers are not required to have the qualification.
OK, I'll get flamed (
) for this but:
Engine on fire and no instant emergency evacuation??? I need re-assurance from a real qualified airline captain (none of you FS experts please).
) for this but:Engine on fire and no instant emergency evacuation??? I need re-assurance from a real qualified airline captain (none of you FS experts please).
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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BRUpax
I understand your concern but I would suspect from the description of events and the pics available that the engine was not 'on fire' but had what is known in the trade as a hot gas leak. This is when any one of a number of seals or joints lets go and allows a jet of v hot air to escape into the nacelle. This will usually trigger a fire warning system and in single engined aeroplanes the drill is to throttle back to idle and wait for a mo to see if the warning goes away - if it does then that pretty much confirms the diagnosis and you land ASAP with the minimum use of power. In the case of this airliner it is highly likely that the crew either throttled back or shut down the problem engine, did a normal single engine landing and that the post touchdown activities were determined by the evident lack of actual fire (once ATC or emergency crews could observe the nacelle) and indeed the fire warning light may well have gone out at some stage.
JF
I understand your concern but I would suspect from the description of events and the pics available that the engine was not 'on fire' but had what is known in the trade as a hot gas leak. This is when any one of a number of seals or joints lets go and allows a jet of v hot air to escape into the nacelle. This will usually trigger a fire warning system and in single engined aeroplanes the drill is to throttle back to idle and wait for a mo to see if the warning goes away - if it does then that pretty much confirms the diagnosis and you land ASAP with the minimum use of power. In the case of this airliner it is highly likely that the crew either throttled back or shut down the problem engine, did a normal single engine landing and that the post touchdown activities were determined by the evident lack of actual fire (once ATC or emergency crews could observe the nacelle) and indeed the fire warning light may well have gone out at some stage.
JF
The Reverend
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Would not have recommended an evacuation on the port side but definitely on the starboard side. Emergency services however, were in position when the aircraft came to a standstill and extinguished the engine fire before an emergency evacuation became neccesary. As has been mentioned already, emergency evacuations on the slides, invariably cause some accidents like skin burns or more serious ankle fractures.
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Commenter "flyinman" on the CBS News story was a passenger on that flight, who says the plane also lost hydraulic and electric power and was flying "erratically".
What I do know is that the gear didn’t drop until we were in line with the runway at the last possible minute.
Bring back the Dak!
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For "last possible minute" substitute "at the appropriate place in the single-engine approach checklist". Put simply, not until the aircraft is established on its normal descending glidepath. This is because you dont want the remaining good engine to be spooled-up to the extent necessary to overcome the drag of the undercarriage, flaps, etc in level flight before final descent is commenced.
It's the "nurture carefully what you have got left" philosophy which every self-respecting professional pilot will subscribe to. True, the remaining engine can produce enough power to effect a go-around by itself, but why "cock the trigger" unnecessarily?
It's the "nurture carefully what you have got left" philosophy which every self-respecting professional pilot will subscribe to. True, the remaining engine can produce enough power to effect a go-around by itself, but why "cock the trigger" unnecessarily?
For "last possible minute" substitute "at the appropriate place in the single-engine approach checklist". Put simply, not until the aircraft is established on its normal descending glidepath. This is because you dont want the remaining good engine to be spooled-up to the extent necessary to overcome the drag of the undercarriage, flaps, etc in level flight before final descent is commenced.
It's the "nurture carefully what you have got left" philosophy which every self-respecting professional pilot will subscribe to. True, the remaining engine can produce enough power to effect a go-around by itself, but why "cock the trigger" unnecessarily
It's the "nurture carefully what you have got left" philosophy which every self-respecting professional pilot will subscribe to. True, the remaining engine can produce enough power to effect a go-around by itself, but why "cock the trigger" unnecessarily
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I'm on my third jet type now, and all of them have shared this: if you have a fire warning, treat it as real. Shut it down (whether by the fire handle, or in one case by the normal shutdown immediately followed by the fire handle), and if the warning stops before you fire the bottle, great, don't fire the bottle. I don't know of any where you might keep the engine running, even at idle, although I stand to be corrected.
Admittedly, my experience is limited. I've only had one real inflight engine fire, and I never got to see all the parts afterward (as part of the ATS melted its way out the bottom of the engine cowling).
The drive home after an engine fire where neither pax nor crew suffered even the slightest injury is an extremely pleasant experience. I hope this crew enjoyed it as much. They earned it.
Admittedly, my experience is limited. I've only had one real inflight engine fire, and I never got to see all the parts afterward (as part of the ATS melted its way out the bottom of the engine cowling).
The drive home after an engine fire where neither pax nor crew suffered even the slightest injury is an extremely pleasant experience. I hope this crew enjoyed it as much. They earned it.
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From the MD80 Emergency checklist:
ENGINE FIRE/SEVERE DAMAGE OR SEPARATION
Throttle (affected engine) IDLE (Memory item)
1) If engine fire handle remain iluminated or severe damage or separation is suspect
Pull the engine fire handle and a lot of things.
2) if engine fire handle light TURN OFF or no severe damage or no separation
CONTINUE FLIGHT AT IDLE POWER and let the captain do whatever he wants
ENGINE FIRE/SEVERE DAMAGE OR SEPARATION
Throttle (affected engine) IDLE (Memory item)
1) If engine fire handle remain iluminated or severe damage or separation is suspect
Pull the engine fire handle and a lot of things.
2) if engine fire handle light TURN OFF or no severe damage or no separation
CONTINUE FLIGHT AT IDLE POWER and let the captain do whatever he wants