The futures bright!
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Guvnor
I have to agree with Papillon you're being to simplistic not taking into account any other factors than pure economics i.e. price in dictating peoples choice of mode of transport. Using your theory it doesn't matter which airports on a route I fly from or at what time of day I fly or how on time my performance is or anything else as long as my fares are the cheapest, this is quite frankly nonesense.
[ 02 November 2001: Message edited by: Pash ]
I have to agree with Papillon you're being to simplistic not taking into account any other factors than pure economics i.e. price in dictating peoples choice of mode of transport. Using your theory it doesn't matter which airports on a route I fly from or at what time of day I fly or how on time my performance is or anything else as long as my fares are the cheapest, this is quite frankly nonesense.
[ 02 November 2001: Message edited by: Pash ]
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And yet more proof (if proof were needed) that it's the low cost carriers that are reigning supreme at the moment - can anyone imagine BA, bmi or any other 'full service' carrier bleeding red ink everywhere trying a rights issue/placing at present? 
From today's Scotsman
From today's Scotsman
EasyJet to gain £93m from shares
Miriam Hils-Cosgrove
EUROPE’S second-largest budget airline, easyJet, has unveiled plans to price its shares at £3.75 each in a sale expected to net £93 million for the carrier and its founder, Stelios Haji-Ioannou.
The airline and Haji-Ioannou are cashing in on a recent rise in easyJet’s share price as no-frills carriers continue to outpace their increasingly troubled full-service rivals.
Even in the wake of the 11 September terrorist attacks on the US, easyJet and its low-cost competitor Ryanair have seen passenger numbers rise as they slashed fares to get travellers back in the air.
Haji-Ioannou stands to pocket at least £50 million from the complex sale of new and existing shares. The easyJet chairman is selling around a net 13 million shares in the airline, thereby cutting his stake from 36 per cent to 29 per cent.
The proceeds of the sale will be used to fund Haji-Ioannou’s other ventures, which include a car rental business and a chain of internet cafes.
Under the terms of the sale, easyJet has placed 6.5 million new shares and Haji-Ioannou’s holding company easyGroup has placed 32.53 million existing shares with institutional investors.
In turn, the company is making a three-for-40 rights offer to current shareholders of 19.53 million new shares at the same price of £3.75 per share, with easyGroup subscribing for 13.99 million shares, as well as underwriting the rest of the offer.
Ray Webster, chief executive of easyJet, said the offer, which closes on 20 November, was 4.5 times oversubscribed.
EasyJet shares rose 3 per cent to 394p in yesterday’s trading, their highest price since 11 September, before settling back to 385p. EasyJet has outperformed the FTSE transport sector by more than 50 per cent since the start of the year.
The budget airline, which has been hot on the heels of its more established long-haul competitors, said money raised from the share sale would help buy new planes and apply for more slots at airports, as it continues to expand in Europe.
Analysts said the deal was a canny way for Haji-Ioannou to bring in cash for his other business interests.
Founded in 1995, easyJet currently operates more than 30 routes in Europe from airport bases including London Luton, Geneva, and Amsterdam.
Miriam Hils-Cosgrove
EUROPE’S second-largest budget airline, easyJet, has unveiled plans to price its shares at £3.75 each in a sale expected to net £93 million for the carrier and its founder, Stelios Haji-Ioannou.
The airline and Haji-Ioannou are cashing in on a recent rise in easyJet’s share price as no-frills carriers continue to outpace their increasingly troubled full-service rivals.
Even in the wake of the 11 September terrorist attacks on the US, easyJet and its low-cost competitor Ryanair have seen passenger numbers rise as they slashed fares to get travellers back in the air.
Haji-Ioannou stands to pocket at least £50 million from the complex sale of new and existing shares. The easyJet chairman is selling around a net 13 million shares in the airline, thereby cutting his stake from 36 per cent to 29 per cent.
The proceeds of the sale will be used to fund Haji-Ioannou’s other ventures, which include a car rental business and a chain of internet cafes.
Under the terms of the sale, easyJet has placed 6.5 million new shares and Haji-Ioannou’s holding company easyGroup has placed 32.53 million existing shares with institutional investors.
In turn, the company is making a three-for-40 rights offer to current shareholders of 19.53 million new shares at the same price of £3.75 per share, with easyGroup subscribing for 13.99 million shares, as well as underwriting the rest of the offer.
Ray Webster, chief executive of easyJet, said the offer, which closes on 20 November, was 4.5 times oversubscribed.
EasyJet shares rose 3 per cent to 394p in yesterday’s trading, their highest price since 11 September, before settling back to 385p. EasyJet has outperformed the FTSE transport sector by more than 50 per cent since the start of the year.
The budget airline, which has been hot on the heels of its more established long-haul competitors, said money raised from the share sale would help buy new planes and apply for more slots at airports, as it continues to expand in Europe.
Analysts said the deal was a canny way for Haji-Ioannou to bring in cash for his other business interests.
Founded in 1995, easyJet currently operates more than 30 routes in Europe from airport bases including London Luton, Geneva, and Amsterdam.
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Of course, an alternative headline could have read,
"Stavros, realising the true state of his airline, starts to cash in before anybody else finds out".
I'm sure Guv can tell us how many low cost carriers started up in the USA when deregulation first started, and how many now survive. Market conditions are completely different "over there", and what works in one place will not necessarily work in another.
MP, I think I may have been parked next to your 757 yesterday. If it was you, and BA are filling a 75, I'm impressed(and relieved). It reinforces my opinion that there is a lot of balloney being spouted about this downturn. My company is flying around pretty much full most the time, certainly above break-even 99% of the time.
"Stavros, realising the true state of his airline, starts to cash in before anybody else finds out".
I'm sure Guv can tell us how many low cost carriers started up in the USA when deregulation first started, and how many now survive. Market conditions are completely different "over there", and what works in one place will not necessarily work in another.
MP, I think I may have been parked next to your 757 yesterday. If it was you, and BA are filling a 75, I'm impressed(and relieved). It reinforces my opinion that there is a lot of balloney being spouted about this downturn. My company is flying around pretty much full most the time, certainly above break-even 99% of the time.
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Well, it isn't true that just because the flight's full it's turning a profit by any means, there are plenty of routes that operate at 90% loads and lose money, and others that cannot (on current passenger mix) ever make a profit.
Also, a route like LHR-NCL is fairly well down the priority order for fleet allocation and often gets what is left over, rather than a deliberate policy to fit 757 capacity to the route.
Incidentally, I'm sure that passengers are delighted that the EI monopoly on Scotland-DUB has been broken and I'm not defending a high fare single operator by any means. But it's a slightly false position at the moment because FR and GO are in a private spat on a lot of the routes, the market is not sustainable at those levels in the long term.
Nevertheless, the point I was making is that it is not inevitable the full frills carriers will get duffed up by the low cost boys providing they get their act together. Some lowering of overhead is required of course (and this is not intended as a green light for certain people to blame everything on pilots) but the likes of GB Airways have shown that it is possible to remain successful even with such heavy competition.
Also, a route like LHR-NCL is fairly well down the priority order for fleet allocation and often gets what is left over, rather than a deliberate policy to fit 757 capacity to the route.
Incidentally, I'm sure that passengers are delighted that the EI monopoly on Scotland-DUB has been broken and I'm not defending a high fare single operator by any means. But it's a slightly false position at the moment because FR and GO are in a private spat on a lot of the routes, the market is not sustainable at those levels in the long term.
Nevertheless, the point I was making is that it is not inevitable the full frills carriers will get duffed up by the low cost boys providing they get their act together. Some lowering of overhead is required of course (and this is not intended as a green light for certain people to blame everything on pilots) but the likes of GB Airways have shown that it is possible to remain successful even with such heavy competition.
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Full fares or no frills, who cares. I think it is good that some airlines are doing well at the moment. All we are hearing about is the aviation industry going through a hard time, good luck to every airline during this uphill struggle. 
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SKYCRUISER-You are right, who cares whether its a full fares or low cost airline (unless its your own company, presumably) If someone or several are doing well that it very good news, is it not?
Of course in a perfect world, BA, BMi etc would get all the passangers they need on the full fare, fully flexible and reliable tickets, and Easyjet et al would get loads of Gordies-on-a-**** -up and others looking for the cheapist possible fare and everyone could go home happy. Its obviously not going to ever work like that, and ineviatably there will be winners and losers. But as long as there are some winners, (and it isn't just BA bullying the small airlines into submission/bancrupcy)then it is cause for celibration. (I'm not wishing BA ill, by the way, but it is undeniable that they have done that in the past)
P.S. Was the blanking of the (word meaning 'to drink heavily' or to relieve oneself) edited automatically or by the moderators? Just curious.
[ 05 November 2001: Message edited by: Captain James Bigglesworth ]
Of course in a perfect world, BA, BMi etc would get all the passangers they need on the full fare, fully flexible and reliable tickets, and Easyjet et al would get loads of Gordies-on-a-**** -up and others looking for the cheapist possible fare and everyone could go home happy. Its obviously not going to ever work like that, and ineviatably there will be winners and losers. But as long as there are some winners, (and it isn't just BA bullying the small airlines into submission/bancrupcy)then it is cause for celibration. (I'm not wishing BA ill, by the way, but it is undeniable that they have done that in the past)
P.S. Was the blanking of the (word meaning 'to drink heavily' or to relieve oneself) edited automatically or by the moderators? Just curious.
[ 05 November 2001: Message edited by: Captain James Bigglesworth ]
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The future may be brighter for FE's from BA and displaced Classic crews from Virgin........
Job Title: Boeing 747 Type Rated Pilots
Location: Europe
Boeing 747 Type Rated Pilots and Flight Engineers
Air Crew Executive Limited (ACE) is currently seeking experienced personnel for Air Atlanta Icelandic.
The qualifications required are:
Commander: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 7,000 hours, 1,000 on type, and 500 hours as a Commander. Current JAA Member State ATPL/I/R.
Co*Pilot: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 1,500 hours, and 500 hours on type. Current JAA Member State CPL/I/R and ATPL Ground School.
Flight Engineers: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 1,500 hours, and 500 hours on type. Current JAA Member State F/E licence.
Applicants need to have a European Union work permit.
Please mail, fax or e*mail your CV before 19th November to: Air Crew Executive Limited
E*mail: [email protected] and [email protected]
For more information: mailto:[email protected]
Job Title: Boeing 747 Type Rated Pilots
Location: Europe
Boeing 747 Type Rated Pilots and Flight Engineers
Air Crew Executive Limited (ACE) is currently seeking experienced personnel for Air Atlanta Icelandic.
The qualifications required are:
Commander: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 7,000 hours, 1,000 on type, and 500 hours as a Commander. Current JAA Member State ATPL/I/R.
Co*Pilot: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 1,500 hours, and 500 hours on type. Current JAA Member State CPL/I/R and ATPL Ground School.
Flight Engineers: B747 Classic, type rated. Minimum total time 1,500 hours, and 500 hours on type. Current JAA Member State F/E licence.
Applicants need to have a European Union work permit.
Please mail, fax or e*mail your CV before 19th November to: Air Crew Executive Limited
E*mail: [email protected] and [email protected]
For more information: mailto:[email protected]
