Is this you???
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Is this you???
Flying the Unfriendly skies
The glamour.. The wages..Yeahhhhh, baby....
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...cy_drinks.html
The glamour.. The wages..Yeahhhhh, baby....
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...cy_drinks.html
Last edited by odb; 25th Sep 2007 at 20:56.
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"All of these numbers sound phenomenal. Well above minimum wage, they seem well set and able to afford the flight crew a chance at lavish homes, expensive cars and fine wines every night. But those numbers have restrictions that curb the income potential of all flight crews..."
Lots of it is right, but a few errors. For example, where in the world can you get "lavish homes, expensive cars and fine wines every night" at $26 an hour?.
Lots of it is right, but a few errors. For example, where in the world can you get "lavish homes, expensive cars and fine wines every night" at $26 an hour?.
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...and plenty of it is wrong.
Airline pilots ARE well paid. One look at the Terms and Endearment forum on this site will settle that. Research the average graduate starting salary in the UK and compare it with what easyJet pays a first officer.
There are factual inaccuracies regaring F/O's responsibilities, too. I suspect the journalist is unaware of the pilot flying / PNF concept.
Airline pilots ARE well paid. One look at the Terms and Endearment forum on this site will settle that. Research the average graduate starting salary in the UK and compare it with what easyJet pays a first officer.
There are factual inaccuracies regaring F/O's responsibilities, too. I suspect the journalist is unaware of the pilot flying / PNF concept.
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What????
And are those graduates responsible for lives at FL370? DO they put their careers on the line every 6 months or a year? Do they sweat every medical, knowing they could end up at McDonalds if something is wrong? Gimme a break... How long have you been in aviation? And what end? Management?
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Has that graduate, re-mortgaged the house and spent nearly £100,000 on qualifications? That’s if they have a house of course…….
Also if the graduate loses their job for whatever multiple reasons that an average professional pilot can lose their job, will it put the wife/husband and kids on the street?
Also if the graduate loses their job for whatever multiple reasons that an average professional pilot can lose their job, will it put the wife/husband and kids on the street?
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Not sure about the UK, but here in Canada, a first officer is NOT a recent graduate of a college or flying school. In most cases at one of the majors, the candidate probably has about ten years experience making sub-poverty wages in the hopes of making it to the majors and raking in a windfall salary of about $32,000 Canadian for the first two to three years. Finally after that, they start making some reasonable coin, but considering the requal requirements (probably the most stringent industry in the world for that) it's still marginal. In the meantime the college graduate has at least ten years of good salary under their belt. In most cases, the pilot will never catch up financially. So if you're going to make a comparison, let's try and keep some of the variables the same.
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fireflybob,
RE doctors and lawyers:
A GP is on something like £80k
If I'm not mistaken, that's more or less the salary of a fairly experienced Easyjet pilot (see terms and endearment forum)
A graduate trainee lawyer with a good firm? Start on £35k ish, which is an F/O's salary with many airlines.
I rest my case.
RE doctors and lawyers:
A GP is on something like £80k
If I'm not mistaken, that's more or less the salary of a fairly experienced Easyjet pilot (see terms and endearment forum)
A graduate trainee lawyer with a good firm? Start on £35k ish, which is an F/O's salary with many airlines.
I rest my case.
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Glad you;ve rested it, since that means we won't be hearing from you again 
In your first post you said pilots were well paid compared to the average graduate starting salary.
In you next you compared pilots with lawyers & doctors.
Which is it to be? If you want to compare with average graduate starting salaries, look at what a pilot earns whilst he/she does his post-graduate flying training: £0. For more than a year. How does that compare to 'starting salaries' for graduates?
Lawyers starting on £35K - what extra qualifications will they have to have earned by that point? How much help/sponsorship/training will they have received from firms & companies along the way? Compare that to the experience of a young pilot.
Some doctors may earn about £80K, depending on which newspaper you read. Do you think they're overpaid? What if you're really ill and one saves your life with a insightful diagnosis or difficult operation, achievable only due to years of experience, constant training and supervision? Are they overpaid now?
Please note, all questions are rhetorical - I don't really care what you think.
In your first post you said pilots were well paid compared to the average graduate starting salary.
In you next you compared pilots with lawyers & doctors.
Which is it to be? If you want to compare with average graduate starting salaries, look at what a pilot earns whilst he/she does his post-graduate flying training: £0. For more than a year. How does that compare to 'starting salaries' for graduates?
Lawyers starting on £35K - what extra qualifications will they have to have earned by that point? How much help/sponsorship/training will they have received from firms & companies along the way? Compare that to the experience of a young pilot.
Some doctors may earn about £80K, depending on which newspaper you read. Do you think they're overpaid? What if you're really ill and one saves your life with a insightful diagnosis or difficult operation, achievable only due to years of experience, constant training and supervision? Are they overpaid now?
Please note, all questions are rhetorical - I don't really care what you think.
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Gary Lager - just to pick you up on a couple of points.
There is no inconsistency in my threads. I mentioned doctors and lawyers only because the previous poster had drawn the parellel. The comparison is a good one and I stand by it.
The point I was making is that a highly qualified graduate from an excellent university with a good first job does not earn the same amount as a newly qualified F/O working for a good airline.
Of course I realise they get paid nothing while training. Guess what, students don't get paid while they're at university either.
I don't seem to remember saying doctors were overpaid. I also don't remember saying that airline pilot were OVERpaid, just that they were WELL paid, which is not the same thing.
Check out the terms and endearment forum and then go to prospects.ac.uk and look at the salary review. You'll find it interesting.
Alternatively, if you are a commercial pilot, try asking your passengers whether they think your salaries are low. You might get some interesting responses.
There is no inconsistency in my threads. I mentioned doctors and lawyers only because the previous poster had drawn the parellel. The comparison is a good one and I stand by it.
The point I was making is that a highly qualified graduate from an excellent university with a good first job does not earn the same amount as a newly qualified F/O working for a good airline.
Of course I realise they get paid nothing while training. Guess what, students don't get paid while they're at university either.
I don't seem to remember saying doctors were overpaid. I also don't remember saying that airline pilot were OVERpaid, just that they were WELL paid, which is not the same thing.
Check out the terms and endearment forum and then go to prospects.ac.uk and look at the salary review. You'll find it interesting.
Alternatively, if you are a commercial pilot, try asking your passengers whether they think your salaries are low. You might get some interesting responses.
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And just to tell how bad the salaries in the industry really are, Dont forget the Euro to Dollar exchange rate when you get paid in Dollars and live in the Eurozone. 1 Euro = 1.41350 Dollars. Meaning that I have taken a 35% paycut in 4 years.
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And... whether you like it or not, you're still 'well paid' (paid better than the average).
Not that I don't think it's warranted, or deserved, nor do I begrudge it you, but a little perspective: Most graduate salaries are in the 20s (probably the lower half) for qualified, IT people with good skills. (in the UK, in UK pounds). And that's an industry that's gets the same 'you must be rich then' response as pilots do
Not that I don't think it's warranted, or deserved, nor do I begrudge it you, but a little perspective: Most graduate salaries are in the 20s (probably the lower half) for qualified, IT people with good skills. (in the UK, in UK pounds). And that's an industry that's gets the same 'you must be rich then' response as pilots do
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How many newly minted graduates have the following responsibilities:
The lives of say 100 people.
Company equipment that is valued at around $60 million.
Flight decisions that can save or cost the company thousands of dollars/euros per flight.
A minor mistake that gets the company on the evening news and years of good PR can be destroyed.
What a complete crock of poopoo. The comparison is worthless. If a doctor screws up he kills one person, goes home has a stiff G&T and only has his conscience to worry about. Shipton took decades to kill an equivalent passenger load of a 737. If a lawyer screws up no one dies. Ever.
If a pilot screws up he ends up on the slab in the morgue along with the people (s)he is responsible for.
How many lawyers have to regularly be out of bed on a dark and stormy February morning at 0430 to get to their office, endure idiotic security checks, be zapped with unknown levels of radiation and, depending on aircraftt type, breathe contaminated air?
How many doctors or lawyers regularly have to spend 16-18 days separated from their families?
How many lawyers have to pay for training courses so they can work the company's photocopier?
How many doctors have to pay to learn how to work the machines that go ping in hospitals?
The lives of say 100 people.
Company equipment that is valued at around $60 million.
Flight decisions that can save or cost the company thousands of dollars/euros per flight.
A minor mistake that gets the company on the evening news and years of good PR can be destroyed.
There is no inconsistency in my threads. I mentioned doctors and lawyers only because the previous poster had drawn the parellel. The comparison is a good one and I stand by it.
If a pilot screws up he ends up on the slab in the morgue along with the people (s)he is responsible for.
How many lawyers have to regularly be out of bed on a dark and stormy February morning at 0430 to get to their office, endure idiotic security checks, be zapped with unknown levels of radiation and, depending on aircraftt type, breathe contaminated air?
How many doctors or lawyers regularly have to spend 16-18 days separated from their families?
How many lawyers have to pay for training courses so they can work the company's photocopier?
How many doctors have to pay to learn how to work the machines that go ping in hospitals?
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A graduate trainee lawyer with a good firm? Start on £35k