Bmi Airbus lands with park brake on (Report)
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Hey - we all make mistakes. My mum drove her automatic BMW 8 miles into Kingston with the parking brake on. Only noticed when the smoke pouring out the back was pointed out to her by a passer-by. She wondered why it had felt underpowered.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Same happend with an LTU A321 in Paphos last year in June.
Parking Brake was set and aircraft landed. All main gear tires blew, runway was blocked for hours...
Not much has been published on that. Also no report could be sighted on the german "BFU" site, that investigates accidents normaly.
BRGDS
Rampi
Parking Brake was set and aircraft landed. All main gear tires blew, runway was blocked for hours...
Not much has been published on that. Also no report could be sighted on the german "BFU" site, that investigates accidents normaly.
BRGDS
Rampi
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Originally Posted by Farrell
Is there an ECAM alert when the Parking Brake is engaged prior to touchdown?
Release H2F3 includes master caution light, aural warning, and specific checklist-type message on the ECAM.
The link to the report was published by The Nr Fairy on this thread on 13.09 at 16:45.
PBL
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Why not incorporate this into the Air/Ground logic and make it impossible to set the park brake in the air? I've been trying to think of an occasion that might require the park brake to be set when airborne...no, can't think of any!
A lot of types already have a similar arrangement for, say, reverse thrust...why not for park brake????
A lot of types already have a similar arrangement for, say, reverse thrust...why not for park brake????
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Yep, it DOES happen...
Well, I always do a scan...a 'visual flow', so to speak...
On short final, I always scan the gear down indications, autobrake, Flaps/Slats, etc. and ZERO pressure on the brake pressure indicator. (Don't necessarily care about the actual position of the parking brake handle...
Just a personal thing...
PantLoad
On short final, I always scan the gear down indications, autobrake, Flaps/Slats, etc. and ZERO pressure on the brake pressure indicator. (Don't necessarily care about the actual position of the parking brake handle...
Just a personal thing...
PantLoad
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Wow
What is strange about that story? If the Captain was the PF why was he "setting the flaps"? There are two pilots on the airplane with PF and PNF duties for a reason. Maybe he wanted to set the Autobrakes and instead went for the parking brakes. Putting bodies in the seats attitude will keep biting management's behind.
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During my first engine out SIM session on the Airbus I attempted to adjust the rudder trim with the untraditionally located park brake handle. Stuff happens when there are ergonomic issues involved during high workloads.
Yes I know it has to be located there so both pilots can access it.
Yes I know it has to be located there so both pilots can access it.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Quote The NR Fairy: I've seen pictures - can't remember where - of an American nuclear power station were some handles had beer taps on the from different brewers, so as to more rapidly and accurately identify them.
A simple non-software fix is at hand !
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I am not sure if I should admire their creativity - or be afraid as hell, they are using beer taps in order to be able to handle a nuclear power plant.... What is worse, that they are using beer taps or that they had to use something like beer taps to distinguish handles...
A simple non-software fix is at hand !
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I am not sure if I should admire their creativity - or be afraid as hell, they are using beer taps in order to be able to handle a nuclear power plant.... What is worse, that they are using beer taps or that they had to use something like beer taps to distinguish handles...
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Why not add a bit of 'colour' to the Deck,
Parking Brake - White Sticker.
Landing Gear - Green Sticker.
Flaps Lever - Blue Sticker.
Speedbrake - YellowSticker.
This would make it easier to identify what is what just by colour markings.
It would be cheaper than blowing the Tyres!
Regards.
Parking Brake - White Sticker.
Landing Gear - Green Sticker.
Flaps Lever - Blue Sticker.
Speedbrake - YellowSticker.
This would make it easier to identify what is what just by colour markings.
It would be cheaper than blowing the Tyres!
Regards.
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Thank God it did not happen to a third world carrier...the insinuations about pilot incompetence would have been thunderous. As far as I remember airbus parking brake design can lead to some unforseen results especially when one try to use it instinctively.
grimmrad:
I seem to recall that the picture showed a sea of beige, unbroken except for innumerable identical gauges, handles and knobs.
It was the operator's response to a situation which should have been designed out at birth, IMO, but I'm no psychologist nor an ergonomist.
If the humans are the weakest link, then Airbus and other manufacturers need to design in accordance with that. It seems to me that changing the shape of and (I don't recall from the report if it's the case) the motion required to set the parking brake is much more Murphy-proof.
I seem to recall that the picture showed a sea of beige, unbroken except for innumerable identical gauges, handles and knobs.
It was the operator's response to a situation which should have been designed out at birth, IMO, but I'm no psychologist nor an ergonomist.
If the humans are the weakest link, then Airbus and other manufacturers need to design in accordance with that. It seems to me that changing the shape of and (I don't recall from the report if it's the case) the motion required to set the parking brake is much more Murphy-proof.
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Unless you've got a strict requirement to test everyone who might need to operate the aircraft for colour-blindness (including the maintenance people), it's not a good idea to colour-code controls. If you're in low-light conditions it's also not helpful. Tactile differences are far better.
llondel, I agree with you 100%. We rarely look that closely when we reach for a knob/lever. Tactile differences are much more likely to save our bacon. Take a look at a Boeing MSP and check out the knobs.
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Why not have what the 737 had- a big red light that indicates when the park brake is on? Mind you the 737 has other issues to do with the ergonomics of the cockpit, but the park brake is not one of them.
Paxing All Over The World
non-pilot speaking
Tactile differences are far better.
On any of the occasions that I have visited a flight deck (operational or static) some of the main controls were tactile in their design. I recall my father showing me how the undercart (as they called it in his day) lever was shaped like a wheel so that you knew which lever you had in your hand.
If designers have started to use standard switches again then it looks like we are going to have to learn the lessons all over again.
Tactile differences are far better.
On any of the occasions that I have visited a flight deck (operational or static) some of the main controls were tactile in their design. I recall my father showing me how the undercart (as they called it in his day) lever was shaped like a wheel so that you knew which lever you had in your hand.
If designers have started to use standard switches again then it looks like we are going to have to learn the lessons all over again.
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Paxboy, to be fair to Airbus they do not use "standard controls" the flap lever and the parking brake lever are nothing alike, and operate totally differently, the brake lever is lifted out of its detent and turned in a rotary direction to set the brake, i can undestand confusing the speed brake lever with the slat/ flap lever perhaps, but not the brake and flap/slat lever.