A request to To the self appointed 'Guard' (121.5) Police
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121.5 on Box 2
TB
121.5 is monitiored on Box 2 to allow for an aircraft to be contacted if they or the controller misses the initial (or subsequent) calls from ACC. Hopefully by having this 'standard' frequency set on the other box the Typhoons won't get scrambled to often!
That's my take on it.
DD.
121.5 is monitiored on Box 2 to allow for an aircraft to be contacted if they or the controller misses the initial (or subsequent) calls from ACC. Hopefully by having this 'standard' frequency set on the other box the Typhoons won't get scrambled to often!
That's my take on it.
DD.
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I attended a talk by our D&D people and they asked us (GA pilots) to occasionally do practice pans, not only to get familiar ourselves but to give their controllers practice as well.
Has something changed?
Some of the professional pilots should understand that 121.5 is an emergency frequency and not an 'common' channel. It relies on a) being manned and b) being uncluttered.
I accept that some smart*ss calling "guard" or anything else is only adding to the clutter - however if I started to (mistakenly) transmit on 121.5 I would appreciate someone telling me that I was on the wrong frequency.
Has something changed?
Some of the professional pilots should understand that 121.5 is an emergency frequency and not an 'common' channel. It relies on a) being manned and b) being uncluttered.
I accept that some smart*ss calling "guard" or anything else is only adding to the clutter - however if I started to (mistakenly) transmit on 121.5 I would appreciate someone telling me that I was on the wrong frequency.
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I found most recently, that the constant 'you're on guard' comments simply serve as a means for me to set a sensible volume level on that box, such that it doesn't become obtrusive, but does allow me to 'monitor' for anything out of the ordinary.
What I have found odd is the lack of helpful response when someone calls on 121.5 to raise some assistance, i.e lost comms (with a particular freq), and resorts to using guard (rightly or wrongly) to establish contact with someone/anyone to gain further assistance.
What I have found odd is the lack of helpful response when someone calls on 121.5 to raise some assistance, i.e lost comms (with a particular freq), and resorts to using guard (rightly or wrongly) to establish contact with someone/anyone to gain further assistance.
Wouldn't "wrong box!" be better than "Guard" which can be confused with "Go ahead"?
'Guard', as far as I'm aware, is a military term. Our radios were marked 'TR+G'; this meant in addition to Tx and Rx on the selected frequency, you also had an emergency receiver swithced on. Far less chance of mistakenly transmitting on the emergency frequency. A pity that civvie people-tubes don't have a similar facility as it would lessen the chances of mistaken transmissions.
Inappropriate transmissions on 123.45, such as people asking for rounders or kev-ball scores, who's hiring and what the Ts and Cs are used to be a pain in the proverbial. But cluttering up 121.5 is inexcusable - genuine mistakes can happen but those over-eager to play policeman should keep quiet! If the Tx is repeated a couple of times, perhaps "Wrong box" wouldn't be unreasonable?
Was once flying one of HM's jets out to the Mediterrannean. Someone kept keying and blowing in the mike on 243 MHz. Eventually an annoyed German voice came up with "Vill whoeffer is doing ze blojob on 243 please go avay!" That worked!
A plummy voice once announced on a mil ops frequency "This is Kittyhawk blah, from our senior passenger (HM the Q), could you tell us how her horse did in the 3.30 at Cheltenham today?". Quick as a flash, one of the lads said to the Ops Controller with mock concern "It fell, broke a leg and got put down. Probably hamburger by now!". Fortunately he didn't pass it on.
'Guard', as far as I'm aware, is a military term. Our radios were marked 'TR+G'; this meant in addition to Tx and Rx on the selected frequency, you also had an emergency receiver swithced on. Far less chance of mistakenly transmitting on the emergency frequency. A pity that civvie people-tubes don't have a similar facility as it would lessen the chances of mistaken transmissions.
Inappropriate transmissions on 123.45, such as people asking for rounders or kev-ball scores, who's hiring and what the Ts and Cs are used to be a pain in the proverbial. But cluttering up 121.5 is inexcusable - genuine mistakes can happen but those over-eager to play policeman should keep quiet! If the Tx is repeated a couple of times, perhaps "Wrong box" wouldn't be unreasonable?
Was once flying one of HM's jets out to the Mediterrannean. Someone kept keying and blowing in the mike on 243 MHz. Eventually an annoyed German voice came up with "Vill whoeffer is doing ze blojob on 243 please go avay!" That worked!
A plummy voice once announced on a mil ops frequency "This is Kittyhawk blah, from our senior passenger (HM the Q), could you tell us how her horse did in the 3.30 at Cheltenham today?". Quick as a flash, one of the lads said to the Ops Controller with mock concern "It fell, broke a leg and got put down. Probably hamburger by now!". Fortunately he didn't pass it on.
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Wars past
In Vietnam, each pilot seemed to have the need to "Commo Check" on guard 243.0 . As in this thread the Guard Police were relentless in chiding the fellow .
Then one day the fellow was answered with.........."Say again on guard , you were cutout by a MAYDAY!" Silence prevailed! It's still great to know that so many are out there for us when the real deal occurs and we only have time for one call! Thanks for listening!
Then one day the fellow was answered with.........."Say again on guard , you were cutout by a MAYDAY!" Silence prevailed! It's still great to know that so many are out there for us when the real deal occurs and we only have time for one call! Thanks for listening!
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Have been GA for about 15 years (low time). I'm lucky cos I've never needed 121.5 for real.
Don't monitor 121.5 (not enough knobs on the box) - pretty sure I'm typical of 99% of weekend flyers.
Before this morning I had never even heard the terms 'guard' or 'on guard'.
If I was on 121.5 and up sh1t creek, shouts of 'you're on guard' would likely not improve my chances of a happy ending.
A very helpful discussion.
Ta.
sd
Don't monitor 121.5 (not enough knobs on the box) - pretty sure I'm typical of 99% of weekend flyers.
Before this morning I had never even heard the terms 'guard' or 'on guard'.
If I was on 121.5 and up sh1t creek, shouts of 'you're on guard' would likely not improve my chances of a happy ending.
A very helpful discussion.
Ta.
sd
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Yesterday was wonderful - over biscay I heard an American pilot make a short transmission to company, usual stuff, alas though on guard. I sat back and waited to see who would be the quickest on the gun. The police excelled themselves. I'd guess at least 3 went for it simulataneously and ended up blocking one another.. and the frequency. It makes me cringe.
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Another cacophony of American Idiots on 121.5 last night jumping on anyone who made a mistaken broadcast. Seriously guys, do your wives keep you under the thumb and this is your only opportunity for flexing your big muscles???
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same the other day, interception going on in French Airspace. Those involved couldn't get a word in edgeways for all of the tossers reminding them what frequency they were on.
It's simple. It's for urgent messages, emergency, or if ATC need to call you. If that doesn't fit - don't transmit.
It's simple. It's for urgent messages, emergency, or if ATC need to call you. If that doesn't fit - don't transmit.
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Down the PAN in the Solent
I was expecting to be attacked by the “Guard Police” a couple of Sundays ago. Circling over a burning motor boat in the Solent. London Info / Solent Radar were having difficulty fixing my position from the transponder, so transferred me to London Centre on 121.5
I kept the transmissions short, down to “Doesn’t seem to be anyone on board” and “It’s sinking now…” Finally invited to continue en-route when the SAR helicopter had the wreck in sight. Didn’t hear an “On Guard” all the time. Perhaps it sounded real enough.
In hindsight should have read the Lat. / Long off the GPS, it would have saved everyone some time.
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
I kept the transmissions short, down to “Doesn’t seem to be anyone on board” and “It’s sinking now…” Finally invited to continue en-route when the SAR helicopter had the wreck in sight. Didn’t hear an “On Guard” all the time. Perhaps it sounded real enough.
In hindsight should have read the Lat. / Long off the GPS, it would have saved everyone some time.
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
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Perhaps it is time for the SOP writers the world over to write a common procedure that actually works for everybody? It seems that many chief pilots are bereft of common sense and can only quote SOP's at everyone.
121.5 is hallowed ground and is listed by the International Telecommunications Union as an International Distress and Safety Frequency. The owners of the frequency are ICAO, but they delegate "ownership" of the freq to specific users such as London Centre, Scottish Centre etc. Its uses are clearly detailed and there can be no argument regarding who and what should be transmitted on 121.5
Most transport aircraft these days have 2, if not 3 VHF radios. Box 1 for ATC, Box 2 for Ops, ATIS, VOLMET or 121.5 and Box 3 for VHF ACARS. Is it not possible for a crew of 2 (or more) highly trained professional aircrew to manage the comms between them in such a way that 121.5 need not be monitored continuously unless out of VHF range of ground stations in oceanic areas?
It is now widely known that "sleeping" receivers are a problem, but they are easily dealt with. Surely when within VHF range of land stations, it is pure laziness to rely on someone calling you on guard to highlight a problem rather than remain vigilant?
Example:
A busy frequency suddenly goes quiet. Any reasonable crew should be able to do the following:
1. Check selected frequency, RT Station box settings and request a radio check with ATC
2. If no response, attempt contact on Box 2 or 3.
3. If no further contact, attempt to establish comms on previous freq if appropriate (which of course is noted on the PLOG by PNF, remembering that Jeppesen High and Low Charts have sector frequencies printed on them.
)
4. If still no contact, attempt to raise an ATCC on 121.5 if within VHF range and request a relay to the last worked sector or transmit blind intentions having suspected rx failure.
5. In the event of no established comms, Squawk 7600, adopt National Radio Fail procedures and keep a sharp eye out for fighters joining your wing. At the same time, get the PNF to get a copy of the International Interception Procedures out onto his clipboard.
6. You could also try an ACARS message to alert ATC or even the newfangled Sat phones some of you have!
If at anytime a crew suspects radio or receiver failure, a quick radio check with ATC will ease the mind. In busy sectors the fact you don't want to bother a busy controller suggests that your rx is working fine!
Crew vigilance can cut this sort of issue out and avoid having to have 121.5 selected at all times. Should you NEED fighters, then using 121.5 for it's intended purpose along with 7500 will have them on your wing as quick as a flash.
The change will only come from those that write SOP's, but a bit of common sense in the cockpit will help highlight the solution to them.
At the end of the day, listen to the emergency/D&D controllers who monitor 121.5/243.0 for 24 hrs of each day and are specifically trained and authorised to manage the freq. They are telling us that CAT is causing the problem. Don't get at them, get at your Flt Ops dept and get them to update your SOP's to a reasonable procedure!
And for the "Guard Police", shut up! You may cost someone their life one day!
121.5 is hallowed ground and is listed by the International Telecommunications Union as an International Distress and Safety Frequency. The owners of the frequency are ICAO, but they delegate "ownership" of the freq to specific users such as London Centre, Scottish Centre etc. Its uses are clearly detailed and there can be no argument regarding who and what should be transmitted on 121.5
Most transport aircraft these days have 2, if not 3 VHF radios. Box 1 for ATC, Box 2 for Ops, ATIS, VOLMET or 121.5 and Box 3 for VHF ACARS. Is it not possible for a crew of 2 (or more) highly trained professional aircrew to manage the comms between them in such a way that 121.5 need not be monitored continuously unless out of VHF range of ground stations in oceanic areas?
It is now widely known that "sleeping" receivers are a problem, but they are easily dealt with. Surely when within VHF range of land stations, it is pure laziness to rely on someone calling you on guard to highlight a problem rather than remain vigilant?
Example:
A busy frequency suddenly goes quiet. Any reasonable crew should be able to do the following:
1. Check selected frequency, RT Station box settings and request a radio check with ATC
2. If no response, attempt contact on Box 2 or 3.
3. If no further contact, attempt to establish comms on previous freq if appropriate (which of course is noted on the PLOG by PNF, remembering that Jeppesen High and Low Charts have sector frequencies printed on them.
)4. If still no contact, attempt to raise an ATCC on 121.5 if within VHF range and request a relay to the last worked sector or transmit blind intentions having suspected rx failure.
5. In the event of no established comms, Squawk 7600, adopt National Radio Fail procedures and keep a sharp eye out for fighters joining your wing. At the same time, get the PNF to get a copy of the International Interception Procedures out onto his clipboard.
6. You could also try an ACARS message to alert ATC or even the newfangled Sat phones some of you have!
If at anytime a crew suspects radio or receiver failure, a quick radio check with ATC will ease the mind. In busy sectors the fact you don't want to bother a busy controller suggests that your rx is working fine!
Crew vigilance can cut this sort of issue out and avoid having to have 121.5 selected at all times. Should you NEED fighters, then using 121.5 for it's intended purpose along with 7500 will have them on your wing as quick as a flash.
The change will only come from those that write SOP's, but a bit of common sense in the cockpit will help highlight the solution to them.
At the end of the day, listen to the emergency/D&D controllers who monitor 121.5/243.0 for 24 hrs of each day and are specifically trained and authorised to manage the freq. They are telling us that CAT is causing the problem. Don't get at them, get at your Flt Ops dept and get them to update your SOP's to a reasonable procedure!
And for the "Guard Police", shut up! You may cost someone their life one day!
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Afew months ago I heard a company aircraft on 121.5 having a quick chat. usually i hate this. but this time i could not help myself with a " ----- we have identified you on radar and arw now tracking you, can you restate the nature of the problem"
My god they soon shut up.
My god they soon shut up.
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pilot999, and Diddley Dee,
I LOVE this idea......
DD, anything you can do with that?
A few pro-active calls from D&D in that style might "clear the air"?
" ----- we have identified you on radar and are now tracking you, can you restate the nature of the problem"
DD, anything you can do with that?
A few pro-active calls from D&D in that style might "clear the air"?
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OK, let me see if I understand this correctly.
It is not permissible to transmit "you're on guard" on 121.50, but it is permissible to transmit a false message stating that you are D&D.
Thank you for the clarification.
It is not permissible to transmit "you're on guard" on 121.50, but it is permissible to transmit a false message stating that you are D&D.
Thank you for the clarification.
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Check 6,
Sorry if I was misunderstood.
My suggestion was for D&D to do this.
The simple knowledge, that D&D in most cases has their identity the moment they open their big mouths, might shut up more than a few.
Sorry if I was misunderstood.
My suggestion was for D&D to do this.
The simple knowledge, that D&D in most cases has their identity the moment they open their big mouths, might shut up more than a few.
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CJ, sorry, my comments were intended for a poster above you. 
BTW, I forgot to mention. American bashers please take note:
"Guard" in the US (colonies for you bashers) is known as the "Speedbird chat line." Our ATC is forced (they can't turn it off obviously) to listen to BA crews chatting on 121.5 24/7 (7/24).
BTW, I forgot to mention. American bashers please take note:
"Guard" in the US (colonies for you bashers) is known as the "Speedbird chat line." Our ATC is forced (they can't turn it off obviously) to listen to BA crews chatting on 121.5 24/7 (7/24).
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How about instead of that you don't say anything? In fact how about next time you see the guy next to you make a small mistake, instead of jumping on him, why not give him a few moments to see if he picks it up himself? How about it? An initial touch of leeway, as we would in normal life.