China Airlines B737 Fire at Okinawa
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Originally Posted by SIC
FDR's are not necessarily wiped clean on shutdown as implied in an earlier post. Modern recorders can log many flights over a period of time - so chances are there will be usable data.
In flight it might have been blown out or burned somewhere where it didn't do immediate damage, then once the engine was shut down, it pooled in and under the engine until it reached a spot hot enough to ignite it.
(Just my own attempt at a plausible explanation. I have no intention of out-guessing the inquiry).
CJ
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China Airlines B737 Fire at Okinawa
Maybe all of the required Service Bulletins, including the installation of the Nitrogen Generation Systems being enforced on many aircraft (including the 737NG) following SFAR 88 are justified after all.
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Originally Posted by pontifex
... tires exploding ...
A major engine fire after shutdown would have reached the wing tanks within minutes. Once those start dumping fuel on the tarmac (as seen on the video), there's your fireball.
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Couple of questions...
I don't think there has been any reported instances of a CFM-56 with an uncontained failure. So what punctured the fuel cells?
The airplane was parked. When did the fuel cell get punctured and how? If the fuel cells were punctured prior to parking, why did not the tower or the ground crew notify the crew of the problem prior to arriving on the ramp?
IF the aircraft was leaking fuel while taxiing in, where was the fire/emerg equipment?
Did the crew make any calls noting an engine failure/problem prior to landing or after landing? If not, what happened enroute to the ramp?
Finally, it presents a very stark image of fires and how little time one has to deal with them. Even if one can locate the source often there is little one can do with the fire. And this evac is remarkably unusual in that no one was reported hurt in the evac. Even in the best of circumstances, an evac usually winds up with someone with a broken leg/arm or bodily injury.
I don't think there has been any reported instances of a CFM-56 with an uncontained failure. So what punctured the fuel cells?
The airplane was parked. When did the fuel cell get punctured and how? If the fuel cells were punctured prior to parking, why did not the tower or the ground crew notify the crew of the problem prior to arriving on the ramp?
IF the aircraft was leaking fuel while taxiing in, where was the fire/emerg equipment?
Did the crew make any calls noting an engine failure/problem prior to landing or after landing? If not, what happened enroute to the ramp?
Finally, it presents a very stark image of fires and how little time one has to deal with them. Even if one can locate the source often there is little one can do with the fire. And this evac is remarkably unusual in that no one was reported hurt in the evac. Even in the best of circumstances, an evac usually winds up with someone with a broken leg/arm or bodily injury.
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spilled fuel
I won't argue fuel tank inerting here, I think most of us agree on that.
But this was not a fuel vapor explosion, it was ignition of spilled fuel.
But this was not a fuel vapor explosion, it was ignition of spilled fuel.
To get jeta1 to explode you need to atomise it, which is why this was probably a center fuel tank explosion (having got rather too hot and started boiling). Tyres could possibly stir it up and make a fireball, but the plugs should prevent that.
Forewarned is Forearmed
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Not sure if the Plugs would prevent much, if the rubber tyre carcases were on fire.
Good to see everyone was off in time, hope that P1 & P2 were ok after their rapid exit, without the use of the cockpit escape rope, it looked like a heavy landing onto the ramp for them.
Good to see everyone was off in time, hope that P1 & P2 were ok after their rapid exit, without the use of the cockpit escape rope, it looked like a heavy landing onto the ramp for them.
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Whatever happened, it's farkin scary stuff.
Thank goodness all safe.
Last to hit land were the Capt and FO. From the flight deck window.
Nobody expects the captain to go down with the ship but these guys . . . . . .words fail me.
Thank goodness all safe.
Last to hit land were the Capt and FO. From the flight deck window.
Nobody expects the captain to go down with the ship but these guys . . . . . .words fail me.
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Fortunately, lessons from Manchester seem to have been learned, no exits opened or slides deployed on left (fire) side. Maybe they intended to disembark pax from the right-side anyway.
One pax reported a 4min delay in evacuation (prob 40 secs) re-arm time?
The UK televised mobile phone footage of the evacuation suggests an external pooled fuel fire spreading under the central fuselage whilst stationary. Lack of smoke issuing from front & rear doors suggest it had not penetrated the cabin as per MCR. The televised explosion seemed to be a double explosion, 1. ground fire explodes main tyres, 2. debris punctures empty? central tank resulting in fireball.
Query Why were P1 P2 still on flight deck until the last moment? Unaware of severity of incident? Exit via cockpit window without rope suggests panic.
Praise to CC & Pax
As to cause - I leave that to the Inquiry
One pax reported a 4min delay in evacuation (prob 40 secs) re-arm time?
The UK televised mobile phone footage of the evacuation suggests an external pooled fuel fire spreading under the central fuselage whilst stationary. Lack of smoke issuing from front & rear doors suggest it had not penetrated the cabin as per MCR. The televised explosion seemed to be a double explosion, 1. ground fire explodes main tyres, 2. debris punctures empty? central tank resulting in fireball.
Query Why were P1 P2 still on flight deck until the last moment? Unaware of severity of incident? Exit via cockpit window without rope suggests panic.
Praise to CC & Pax
As to cause - I leave that to the Inquiry
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I only had to evacuate one time in my career. I hated it but it was the only thing to do with the slides of the 737. I, the captain, was the last one down the slide and congratulated the FA's on the fine job they did. We had a 100 % full flight and it was one of those positive bomb threats so had to do it. No one got hurt. Wish we wouldn't have had to do it but we did.
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Good one: Apparently Aircraft came out of maintenance on FRI the 13th (previous month) - with 13666 
hours on it.
And in China August is "Ghost Month" ie generally bad luck time and people are advised not to travel by the local temples.
Glad all ok.
hours on it. And in China August is "Ghost Month" ie generally bad luck time and people are advised not to travel by the local temples.
Glad all ok.
Last edited by SIC; 21st Aug 2007 at 04:41.
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oh for crying out loud... fri 13th, 13666 hrs, ghosts....
can we please at least try to keep it technical?
yes, kudos to the crew for a successful unplanned evacuation
can we please at least try to keep it technical?
yes, kudos to the crew for a successful unplanned evacuation
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Why were P1 P2 still on flight deck until the last moment?
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this was probably a center fuel tank explosion
The center fuel tank is also the center section of the wing, so after an CFT explosion, the right wingtip would have dropped to the ground immediately. Obviously the wing structure is intact after the explosion (I would not even call it that way, it was a minor blast causing a lot of fuel on the ground to be mixed with air and creating a huge fireball).
By the way, the skin thickness of the upper and lower skin of the CFT is much greater than that of the forward or rear spar, so an CFT explosion would not have been visible below the wing, but would have more probably blasted into the forward cargo hold, blowing up the complete forward fuselage (see the TWA 747 explosion...).
Gongratulations to the CC, they have done a perfect job.
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Cabin crew.....Nicely done!
Why were P1 P2 still on flight deck until the last moment?
Perhaps the flight crew were awaiting the cabin to clear before making their own escape. During the evac, things like emptying fire bottles and killing power would be in order before bugging out of the cockpit.
The chances a tire fire caused that fireball seems remote. It could have been a superheated fuel tank igniting or something in one of the cargo bays going up.