China Airlines B737 Fire at Okinawa
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traffic traffic motitor V/S...
...should read back to CAL.
It does not matter if someone is company man or not. The facts, if any available yet or when they come out, will talk for itself.
Therefore what ever I say may be completely wrong but hopefully has some common sense.
CAL has work hard to turn around things.
Is there still room to improve? Yes.
Do they take shortcuts? At least not visible ones as they use to.
Crew did a good job based on much better training received in the last few years.
Before Okinawa Boeing issued an AD. It was a regular one. Not an Emergency AD. For the same kind of incidents!!!
The A/C was only five years old.
I have no idea but probably that slat was never removed for a C or D check( time or cycles not due yet) or troubleshooting any problem.
If that is true the washer missing was never installed. ( If this was the probable cause...)
Fact is that after Okinawa several air crafts have been inspected and same part was missing. Latest one ANA aircraft delivered on January 07.
Good news is no one was injured or killed. Bad news is that:
Boeing screw up
Many people, newspaper, pprune writers that know it all will have to eat all the rushed judgements expressed.
Lets wait. If Im the one who should eat my words, I will do it the very next day I read the final report. Don't worry guys I will let you know...
B good!
It does not matter if someone is company man or not. The facts, if any available yet or when they come out, will talk for itself.
Therefore what ever I say may be completely wrong but hopefully has some common sense.
CAL has work hard to turn around things.
Is there still room to improve? Yes.
Do they take shortcuts? At least not visible ones as they use to.
Crew did a good job based on much better training received in the last few years.
Before Okinawa Boeing issued an AD. It was a regular one. Not an Emergency AD. For the same kind of incidents!!!
The A/C was only five years old.
I have no idea but probably that slat was never removed for a C or D check( time or cycles not due yet) or troubleshooting any problem.
If that is true the washer missing was never installed. ( If this was the probable cause...)
Fact is that after Okinawa several air crafts have been inspected and same part was missing. Latest one ANA aircraft delivered on January 07.
Good news is no one was injured or killed. Bad news is that:
Boeing screw up
Many people, newspaper, pprune writers that know it all will have to eat all the rushed judgements expressed.
Lets wait. If Im the one who should eat my words, I will do it the very next day I read the final report. Don't worry guys I will let you know...
B good!
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ARB in 1957?
Just to make the point that there is nothing new in aviation since Pontius was a pilot, this link provides interesting reading.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/4276923.stm
Happy Landings!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/4276923.stm
Happy Landings!
Paxing All Over The World
Thanks rubik101 The BBC list the crash as being 17th March 1957 and Aviation Safety Network list it as 14th March.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=19570314-0
What is interesting is that the post of Sunfish #227 directly applies to this. However, we should not be surprised. Each lesson must be re-learnt by succeeding generations. Sometimes, a hard learnt lesson will last for 50 years, whilst a less severe lesson may last for 25 years. It will usually depend upon how many people died and how much money was involved. However, the less realised, but to my mind greater, factor is: How many people that remember the 'lesson' are still alive and working in the industry.
[off topic]
That is why I am fearful of a severe global financial depression, because the folks currently working in the Stock Market (the ones establishing the 'value' and trading levels) have only heard about the Depression school. Their grandparents can only just remember it and that generation is fast dying out. The 20 and 30 somethings have no concept of what real financial hardship is and have seen some slight rises and falls - but not the big one. Some of them remember the Recession of 1989/1992 but, "Hey - look how much money we've made since then?!"
Running an airline and running a stock market both need a memory that is longer than our own personal memory. Consequently, there are very few new errors of judgement in the world, we just repeat the old ones in a modern and updated way.
[end off topic]
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=19570314-0
What is interesting is that the post of Sunfish #227 directly applies to this. However, we should not be surprised. Each lesson must be re-learnt by succeeding generations. Sometimes, a hard learnt lesson will last for 50 years, whilst a less severe lesson may last for 25 years. It will usually depend upon how many people died and how much money was involved. However, the less realised, but to my mind greater, factor is: How many people that remember the 'lesson' are still alive and working in the industry.
[off topic]
That is why I am fearful of a severe global financial depression, because the folks currently working in the Stock Market (the ones establishing the 'value' and trading levels) have only heard about the Depression school. Their grandparents can only just remember it and that generation is fast dying out. The 20 and 30 somethings have no concept of what real financial hardship is and have seen some slight rises and falls - but not the big one. Some of them remember the Recession of 1989/1992 but, "Hey - look how much money we've made since then?!"
Running an airline and running a stock market both need a memory that is longer than our own personal memory. Consequently, there are very few new errors of judgement in the world, we just repeat the old ones in a modern and updated way.
[end off topic]
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US Orders Emergency Checks On Newer Boeing 737s
August 28, 2007
US aviation authorities have ordered emergency inspections of newer model Boeing 737 airliners in response to last week's explosion and fire that destroyed a China Airlines plane in Japan, officials said on Monday.
A Federal Aviation Administration order sent to airlines over the weekend requires wing slat inspections on all 737-600 and above models within the next three weeks.
There are more than 780 of the affected planes registered to US airlines and another 1,500 flying overseas. Foreign aviation safety authorities usually follow FAA recommendations.
Airlines "were working diligently" to complete the inspections, a Boeing spokesman said.
The FAA, working with Boeing, wants airlines to ensure that a nut inside the movable slat system on each wing does not fall off and possibly damage an adjacent fuel tank.
Slats are panels that extend from the front of the wing to help give an aircraft lift at lower speeds -- during landing and takeoff.
Japanese investigators examining the charred wreckage of the Taiwanese 737-800 on the island of Okinawa found that a loose nut fell into the path of a retracting wing slat after landing and pierced the fuel tank, causing a leak.
The leaking fuel triggered an explosion and fire that engulfed the plane but all aboard escaped safely.
Boeing said it issued a service letter to airlines in 2005 after receiving four reports of loose slat nuts. In one case, a nut fell off a bolt and punctured a fuel tank, but there was no fire. The advisory was updated in 2006 and again last month, Boeing said.
(Reuters)
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1188287507.html
US aviation authorities have ordered emergency inspections of newer model Boeing 737 airliners in response to last week's explosion and fire that destroyed a China Airlines plane in Japan, officials said on Monday.
A Federal Aviation Administration order sent to airlines over the weekend requires wing slat inspections on all 737-600 and above models within the next three weeks.
There are more than 780 of the affected planes registered to US airlines and another 1,500 flying overseas. Foreign aviation safety authorities usually follow FAA recommendations.
Airlines "were working diligently" to complete the inspections, a Boeing spokesman said.
The FAA, working with Boeing, wants airlines to ensure that a nut inside the movable slat system on each wing does not fall off and possibly damage an adjacent fuel tank.
Slats are panels that extend from the front of the wing to help give an aircraft lift at lower speeds -- during landing and takeoff.
Japanese investigators examining the charred wreckage of the Taiwanese 737-800 on the island of Okinawa found that a loose nut fell into the path of a retracting wing slat after landing and pierced the fuel tank, causing a leak.
The leaking fuel triggered an explosion and fire that engulfed the plane but all aboard escaped safely.
Boeing said it issued a service letter to airlines in 2005 after receiving four reports of loose slat nuts. In one case, a nut fell off a bolt and punctured a fuel tank, but there was no fire. The advisory was updated in 2006 and again last month, Boeing said.
(Reuters)
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1188287507.html
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Steve Yuen (阮祥運), vice president of CAL's engineering and maintenance department, said each Boeing 737-800 has 16 slat track downstop assemblies. In total, CAL has checked 208 nuts on the assemblies and found 100 of them were below the standard torsion value.
The standard torsion value, as indicated in the directive, should be between 50 inches-lb and 80 inches-lb, but the majority of those found below standard had only 40 inches-lb.
The standard torsion value, as indicated in the directive, should be between 50 inches-lb and 80 inches-lb, but the majority of those found below standard had only 40 inches-lb.
The inspection team also found some of the components on the assemblies were not placed in accordance with the Boeing aircraft maintenance manual.
However, Yuen said that the company's maintenance crew rarely tamper with the assemblies.
However, Yuen said that the company's maintenance crew rarely tamper with the assemblies.
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Originally Posted by mohdawang
Are you also implying that Boeing is infallible?
Yuen said that the company's maintenance crew rarely tamper with the assemblies.
Without any drawings, I have no idea if the nuts could have become loosened by themselves in normal service.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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CAL has changed five nuts on the assemblies following the issuance of the notice, including one on the aircraft destroyed in the Naha incident.
Presumably they inspected the others on that hull?
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"They changed them, rather than retorquing them to the correct value? Why?"
You have to understand the Chinese psyche. It's always a blame game, leading to scapegoating. Because it's a loss of face to admit they screwed up, and a VERY massive loss of face if it involved someone high up. CAL are the epitome of this.
You have to understand the Chinese psyche. It's always a blame game, leading to scapegoating. Because it's a loss of face to admit they screwed up, and a VERY massive loss of face if it involved someone high up. CAL are the epitome of this.
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....note: The TAipei Times is not a paragon of correct English usage at best....
neither SO many around the world , me included. But to raise the point is totally irrelevant, armchairpilot.
Gengis:
Hope you are not taking the news as a fact. Don't make the same mistake reporters do thinking they are the force to beat on the 21st century.
Be Good...
neither SO many around the world , me included. But to raise the point is totally irrelevant, armchairpilot.
Gengis:
Hope you are not taking the news as a fact. Don't make the same mistake reporters do thinking they are the force to beat on the 21st century.
Be Good...
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what I meant was that CAL may have been misquoted by the Taipei Times or misrepresented in some way.
Did they replace the bolts they found to be insufficiently torqued or did they indeed just re-torque them?
Taipei Times is an internet paper that sometimes lets the story get in the way of the truth.
Did they replace the bolts they found to be insufficiently torqued or did they indeed just re-torque them?
Taipei Times is an internet paper that sometimes lets the story get in the way of the truth.
Thx arm...Case closed!
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Received the message below from CAL today. At first I thought it was being sent in a professional context and was a little confused, but then realised it was a rather detailed customer communication.
CAL Completes 737-800 Fleet Inspections
In Accordance with CAA & FAA Directive
(September 8, 2007)
China Airlines has completed the required inspections on its own and Mandarin Airlines' 13 Boeing 737-800 aircraft, according to a Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) emergency airworthiness directive (EAD). In order to ensure that all the planes are safe for flight operations, Taiwan's CAA has sent inspectors to audit the inspection work.
The FAA's EAD was first issued on Aug. 25 at US time. The FAA ordered airlines to inspect wing slats on certain newer Boeing 737 models within 24 days, and every 3,000 flying cycles thereafter. Taiwan's CAA, at the same time, issued the directive accordingly. China Airlines immediately mobilized a dedicated team to perform the inspections quickly and thoroughly.
FAA issued a second EAD on Aug. 28 at US time. Instead of 24 days, the FAA urged airlines to complete the inspections within 10 days after receipt of the new EAD. Meanwhile, the FAA added sophisticated borescope inspection techniques as a more detailed method of inspection.
In accordance with the new EAD issued by both CAA and FAA, CAL grounded every 737 aircraft for 18 hours in order to perform detailed inspections. The maintenance team used a bore scope to enter the slat track, the downstop assembly and the slat track housing, in order to get detailed, up-close pictures on a computer screen to verify that the parts are properly installed. As scheduled, CAL completed the inspection in a timely fashion, to ensure that all the planes are safe for flight operations.
The incident is subject to an ongoing investigation. No matter what the cause turns out to be, China Airlines is continuously reviewing its safety measures in every detail, in order to provide the best possible service to its customers.
CAL Completes 737-800 Fleet Inspections
In Accordance with CAA & FAA Directive
(September 8, 2007)
China Airlines has completed the required inspections on its own and Mandarin Airlines' 13 Boeing 737-800 aircraft, according to a Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) and Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) emergency airworthiness directive (EAD). In order to ensure that all the planes are safe for flight operations, Taiwan's CAA has sent inspectors to audit the inspection work.
The FAA's EAD was first issued on Aug. 25 at US time. The FAA ordered airlines to inspect wing slats on certain newer Boeing 737 models within 24 days, and every 3,000 flying cycles thereafter. Taiwan's CAA, at the same time, issued the directive accordingly. China Airlines immediately mobilized a dedicated team to perform the inspections quickly and thoroughly.
FAA issued a second EAD on Aug. 28 at US time. Instead of 24 days, the FAA urged airlines to complete the inspections within 10 days after receipt of the new EAD. Meanwhile, the FAA added sophisticated borescope inspection techniques as a more detailed method of inspection.
In accordance with the new EAD issued by both CAA and FAA, CAL grounded every 737 aircraft for 18 hours in order to perform detailed inspections. The maintenance team used a bore scope to enter the slat track, the downstop assembly and the slat track housing, in order to get detailed, up-close pictures on a computer screen to verify that the parts are properly installed. As scheduled, CAL completed the inspection in a timely fashion, to ensure that all the planes are safe for flight operations.
The incident is subject to an ongoing investigation. No matter what the cause turns out to be, China Airlines is continuously reviewing its safety measures in every detail, in order to provide the best possible service to its customers.
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http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national...22TDY03003.htm
firemen werent the fastest to arrive at the scene but braved high interior temperatures to check for anyone still left in the aircraft while the fire was raging.
firemen werent the fastest to arrive at the scene but braved high interior temperatures to check for anyone still left in the aircraft while the fire was raging.
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CAL replaces chairman after accident in Japan
Taiwan's CAL replaces chairman after accident in Japan
Oct 2, 2007, 11:49 GMT
Taipei - The head of Taiwan's China Airlines (CAL) on Tuesday stepped down as chairman, weeks after he offered to resign over the explosion of a CAL plane at Naha Airport on the Japanese island of Okinawa.
CAL's second in command, Ringo Chao, officially replaced Philip Wei as chairman of the airline as of Tuesday, CAL said in a statement.
'The board of directors voted identically to appoint Mr Ringo Chao as chairman and president of the company, effective as soon as a hand-over ceremony held immediately after the appointment,' it said.
The change meant Chao, the incumbent CAL president, would hold both the chairman and the president posts.
During the changeover ceremony Chao called for improvement of flight safety. 'Apart from the rapid progress over the past few years, CAL needs to further enhance its flight safety,' he was quoted as saying in the statement.
The airline, with a string of accidents on its record, including 10 deadly ones since 1970, has been trying hard to improve its image following a fresh accident at Naha Airport on August 20.
The CAL Boeing 737-800 broke into three sections after an explosion, likely caused by a bolt on the right wing that pierced the tank of the ill-fate plane, resulting in a massive fuel leak. All 165 people on board miraculously escaped to safety.
The US Federal Aviation Administration later issued a worldwide notice demanding thorough checks of the 737 series.
Philip Wei, who followed Taiwan's President Chen Shui-bian in a Central American visit at the time of the accident, offered verbally to resign to take responsibility.
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/b...ident_in_Japan
Oct 2, 2007, 11:49 GMT
Taipei - The head of Taiwan's China Airlines (CAL) on Tuesday stepped down as chairman, weeks after he offered to resign over the explosion of a CAL plane at Naha Airport on the Japanese island of Okinawa.
CAL's second in command, Ringo Chao, officially replaced Philip Wei as chairman of the airline as of Tuesday, CAL said in a statement.
'The board of directors voted identically to appoint Mr Ringo Chao as chairman and president of the company, effective as soon as a hand-over ceremony held immediately after the appointment,' it said.
The change meant Chao, the incumbent CAL president, would hold both the chairman and the president posts.
During the changeover ceremony Chao called for improvement of flight safety. 'Apart from the rapid progress over the past few years, CAL needs to further enhance its flight safety,' he was quoted as saying in the statement.
The airline, with a string of accidents on its record, including 10 deadly ones since 1970, has been trying hard to improve its image following a fresh accident at Naha Airport on August 20.
The CAL Boeing 737-800 broke into three sections after an explosion, likely caused by a bolt on the right wing that pierced the tank of the ill-fate plane, resulting in a massive fuel leak. All 165 people on board miraculously escaped to safety.
The US Federal Aviation Administration later issued a worldwide notice demanding thorough checks of the 737 series.
Philip Wei, who followed Taiwan's President Chen Shui-bian in a Central American visit at the time of the accident, offered verbally to resign to take responsibility.
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/b...ident_in_Japan
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Typical Asian response. However, unless he was the person who did not properly install the bolt at Boeing (as indications seem to be that may well be where the problem started) it hardly seems to be his fault.
But thats what the public seems to demand in Asia.
But thats what the public seems to demand in Asia.
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Top Management Responsibility
Hi ACP,
Thanks for your input.
94116 must be your zip code.
My information is that Philip Wei is now 65 years old and has worked in China Airlines for more than 30 years. Long enough to learn what an aircraft "Service Bulletin" is.
We have from
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/inde...boeingjets.xml
Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx told the Post that Boeing had received four reports in the past about loose nuts in slats and said Boeing had issued several bulletins since December 2005, the most recent going out last month.
B 737 -800 B18616 was delivered in July 2002.
Philip Wei was President of China Airlines from 2002 to 2005. From 16 November 2005 he served as Chairman.
His high position gave him the authority and obligation to make sure that "Middle Management", who love to hide many things and confuse many things , were receiving and actually following Service Bulletins.
Thanks for your input.
94116 must be your zip code.
My information is that Philip Wei is now 65 years old and has worked in China Airlines for more than 30 years. Long enough to learn what an aircraft "Service Bulletin" is.
We have from
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/inde...boeingjets.xml
Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx told the Post that Boeing had received four reports in the past about loose nuts in slats and said Boeing had issued several bulletins since December 2005, the most recent going out last month.
B 737 -800 B18616 was delivered in July 2002.
Philip Wei was President of China Airlines from 2002 to 2005. From 16 November 2005 he served as Chairman.
His high position gave him the authority and obligation to make sure that "Middle Management", who love to hide many things and confuse many things , were receiving and actually following Service Bulletins.