Too Close for comfort - 115 metres?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Too Close for comfort - 115 metres?
From the Independent:
"A HOLIDAY jet with 234 passengers on board came within a split second of a mid-air crash with an American fighter in one of the worst near-misses in British aviation history, according to a report published yesterday.
The crew of a Britannia Airways Boeing 757 watched helplessly as the 1,800mph military plane piloted by a trainee flew virtually straight at them before disappearing down their right hand side.
The captain and first officer on the airliner heard the engine of the F-15E fighter as it hurtled past and felt the buffeting from the turbulence in its wake. The incident was over so quickly that there was no time for the 757 crew to take action to avoid the other aircraft, according to the report published by the Air Accidents Investigation Branch(AAIB) of the Department of the Environment Transport and the Regions.
It is thought that none of the passengers or cabin crew on board the airliner, which had just taken off from Birmingham airport on 22 November last year on its way to Paphos in Cyprus, saw the fighter as it flashed past.
Analysis of data showed that the two planes must have flown within 115 metres of each other, the minimum that can be detected by radar.
Investigators found that the principal cause of the near-miss was the failure of the pilot of the F-15E - one of two fighters on their way from the Lakenheath US air base to a low-flying exercise in Wales - to increase his height from 10,000 to 11,000 feet. The trainee pilot and his instructor who was in the cockpit seat behind him, had been involved in discussions and had missed the clearance to climb from air traffic control.
The first fighter had flown to the new height following the instructions, but not the second which missed two subsequent transmissions that might have led the air crew to realise they were at the wrong height. Air traffic controllers were under the impression that they were only dealing with one military aircraft - the one that had risen to 11,000 feet out of harm's way. However the report said that there was no evidence that confusion over aircraft numbers caused the near-miss.
The document said that one of the US airmen had been vaguely aware of a "shadow" flashing rapidly down his right hand side. But it was only after learning that the Boeing crew had filed an "Airprox" report that the fighter crew realised what had happened.
In an another serious incident investigated by the AAIB, a Boeing 737 with more than 100 passengers on board was forced to abort its take-off from Aberdeen airport on 27 July last year to avoid crashing into a Super Puma helicopter which was hovering near the end of the runway."
AAIB reports to be found at:
http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/bulletin/may01/gbyan.htm
and
http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/bulletin/may01/gpumd.htm
"A HOLIDAY jet with 234 passengers on board came within a split second of a mid-air crash with an American fighter in one of the worst near-misses in British aviation history, according to a report published yesterday.
The crew of a Britannia Airways Boeing 757 watched helplessly as the 1,800mph military plane piloted by a trainee flew virtually straight at them before disappearing down their right hand side.
The captain and first officer on the airliner heard the engine of the F-15E fighter as it hurtled past and felt the buffeting from the turbulence in its wake. The incident was over so quickly that there was no time for the 757 crew to take action to avoid the other aircraft, according to the report published by the Air Accidents Investigation Branch(AAIB) of the Department of the Environment Transport and the Regions.
It is thought that none of the passengers or cabin crew on board the airliner, which had just taken off from Birmingham airport on 22 November last year on its way to Paphos in Cyprus, saw the fighter as it flashed past.
Analysis of data showed that the two planes must have flown within 115 metres of each other, the minimum that can be detected by radar.
Investigators found that the principal cause of the near-miss was the failure of the pilot of the F-15E - one of two fighters on their way from the Lakenheath US air base to a low-flying exercise in Wales - to increase his height from 10,000 to 11,000 feet. The trainee pilot and his instructor who was in the cockpit seat behind him, had been involved in discussions and had missed the clearance to climb from air traffic control.
The first fighter had flown to the new height following the instructions, but not the second which missed two subsequent transmissions that might have led the air crew to realise they were at the wrong height. Air traffic controllers were under the impression that they were only dealing with one military aircraft - the one that had risen to 11,000 feet out of harm's way. However the report said that there was no evidence that confusion over aircraft numbers caused the near-miss.
The document said that one of the US airmen had been vaguely aware of a "shadow" flashing rapidly down his right hand side. But it was only after learning that the Boeing crew had filed an "Airprox" report that the fighter crew realised what had happened.
In an another serious incident investigated by the AAIB, a Boeing 737 with more than 100 passengers on board was forced to abort its take-off from Aberdeen airport on 27 July last year to avoid crashing into a Super Puma helicopter which was hovering near the end of the runway."
AAIB reports to be found at:
http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/bulletin/may01/gbyan.htm
and
http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/bulletin/may01/gpumd.htm
Guest
Posts: n/a
Of course, VFE, they should train, but not anywhere above your house.
Do you not want a fully trained Air Force, albeit American over our lane, but we use Canada and Las Vegas for just the same purpose (Red Flag/NFTC). This training is crucial, and one day, it may just save your life. We are not yet in utopia: wars could occur at any moment.
Do you not want a fully trained Air Force, albeit American over our lane, but we use Canada and Las Vegas for just the same purpose (Red Flag/NFTC). This training is crucial, and one day, it may just save your life. We are not yet in utopia: wars could occur at any moment.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey Lucifer,
My post was very much tongue-in-cheek old chap. Of course I realise the importance of such excercises. I was just taking on the mantle of a typical English moaner with nout better to do than take a swipe at our friends from overseas!
Hairy_kiwi,
I love that sound of freedom. But yes, somewhere over the North sea would please the VFE family.
All the best, VFE.
PS: I wear ear-plugs now anyway!
My post was very much tongue-in-cheek old chap. Of course I realise the importance of such excercises. I was just taking on the mantle of a typical English moaner with nout better to do than take a swipe at our friends from overseas!
Hairy_kiwi,
I love that sound of freedom. But yes, somewhere over the North sea would please the VFE family.
All the best, VFE.
PS: I wear ear-plugs now anyway!
Guest
Posts: n/a
DeltaT has a point. These guys are highly trained to achieve their mission with their high tech gear. However it does seem that they can easily be surprised enroute!
Even if training was involved any F15 pilot has to be fully conversant with airmanship, it is not a basic trainer!
Even if training was involved any F15 pilot has to be fully conversant with airmanship, it is not a basic trainer!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Newswatcher Point taken. What i meant was the incident happened a while ago. There were 2 fighters. Only one of them squawked hence no tcas alert on the 757. I also spoke to one of the cabin crew who was on the flight and he said he could hear clearly, in the cabin, the engine noise of the F-15 as it passed by. Dangerous practise i think by the military having only one plane squaking but thats another thread entirely......
------------------
Its not the fall that kills you...Its the sudden stop.....
------------------
Its not the fall that kills you...Its the sudden stop.....
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sure.....miss a call, but you damnned well should'nt lose your wing man out of sight!!!!! A THOUSAND FEET!?!?!
Anyway, if they act as kings of the sky down here..they better justify it up there....
DT
p.s. what's up with all this paranoya???
WAR???
Anyway, if they act as kings of the sky down here..they better justify it up there....
DT
p.s. what's up with all this paranoya???
WAR???
Guest
Posts: n/a
Maybe Brittania is operating the new B575/S?
or it's close cousin the B757F/S, a (kinda)close cousin to the Lockheed P3 aerial assult vehicle that attacked those poor Chineese Fighter Pilots not so long ago.
Seriously though, I'm happy as heck they didn't collide!
or it's close cousin the B757F/S, a (kinda)close cousin to the Lockheed P3 aerial assult vehicle that attacked those poor Chineese Fighter Pilots not so long ago.
Seriously though, I'm happy as heck they didn't collide!
