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ALPA wants APA

Old 16th Dec 2001, 20:17
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Post ALPA wants APA

I hear there is a deal proposed for ALLIED PILOTS ASSOC. (APA) to become ALPA if they put the TWA senority list on the bottom of the APA list. The TWA MEC is strong and is going to fight it. Comments/verification is desired. :o
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Old 16th Dec 2001, 21:12
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News to me.
APA can't just become ALPA.
The APA members have to vote for ALPA to represent 'em. There is no big push by the majority to vote ALPA.

As for the stapling the TWAbs to the bottom of the list: They sure deserve it.

First they signed an agreement to waive their rigths to third party arbitration, then almost a year later they are trying to get some senator to make it federal law to have the right to third party arbitration for intergration of seniority.

All that instead of negotiating with APA on the seniority issue. The TWAbs have even refused meetings with APA leadership.

Carty and AMR should sell TWA back to Carl Icahn, or just let it go chapter 7 and write of the loss on future taxes.
Would serve 'em right, greedy gold diggers.
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Old 16th Dec 2001, 22:43
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Of course they want us.
ALPA is a business and AA is 14000+ well paid pilots. They are gonna lose the 2400 TWA pilots in the next month or two when the single carrier ruling comes down and ALPA at TWA is formally decertified.

So ALPA membership will decline, and revenue will seriously decline. IF they get AA it would increase dramatically and they would have more wealthy pilots to carry the dead wood of the many small airlines that are bleeding ALPA.

However, as they have done nothing for AA, and the process to bring ALPA into AA has been going on for over a year as a dismal failure, I expect that it will be a long time before ALPA reappears at AA.

Furthermore the hostility generated by the out of control TWA MEC probably means that ALPA doesn't have a chance till the last person affected by the merger retires (38 years or so from now)...

Cheers
Wino
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Old 17th Dec 2001, 05:49
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Well, from someone calling themself a "Sky God" I suppose those TWA pilots should be happy just to be in your company, let alone your presence. Obvivously from your post, you figure they're not fit to even carry your flight bag.

Many TWA pilots are now working for other companies and are no doubt flying South America.

After a post like the one you just made, I wouldn't be asking ANYONE to "Meet Me In Santiago". You never know who might show up, and as you're so experienced down there, you probably know that life is cheap there, although not as cheap as your last post...
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Old 17th Dec 2001, 19:09
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I certainly appreciate y'alls posts. It follows along with the story I had heard. Historically, merging of lists never seems a happy time. It was a surprise to hear the idea of APA pilots switching to ALPA, knowing the history there.

The theme of "ALPA wants the dues" is consistant. They seem more desparate now, considering the economy. The agreement just made with FedEx Pilots Association has five (out of 10) pages concerning the money FPA will give to ALPA.

The TWA MEC is watching out for it's members. ALPA national doesn't care. APA is looking out for it's members, too, as evidenced from this communication that was emailed to me:

This comes from an Allied Pilotís Association (APA) newsletter:

ALPA Pledge Cards:

Most of us received ALPA pledge cards earlier this year. Your DFW representatives have been fairly neutral about re-affiliation with ALPA. The APA BOD canít take you to ALPA; only a membership vote can take us there. That decision is up to you.

Recently, APA submitted a single carrier petition to the National Mediation Board (NMB). The NMB typically uses 35% as the trigger percentage in determining whether there will be a representational election of bargaining agents (unions). Since, TWA pilots do not make up the required 35%, the NMB probably would not require an election. However, if the ALPA proponents within the APA membership have enough ALPA cards, they could submit them and succeed in provoking an election. While we normally would let the membership make its own decision, we must warn you of one possible outcome.

While APAís seniority integration agreement has been negotiated with management, we donít believe it advisable to have a new ALPA MEC taking the position that ALPA merger policy should apply to acquisitions, and thus, undercutting whatever defense of the agreement is possibleÖunless, of course, you prefer to arbitrate the integration.

We stress that whatever union you prefer is ultimately your choice. What we advise is that a representational election is NOT in your best interests until after single carrier status has been confirmed and after the APA is named as the bargaining agent. That will assure us that the seniority implementation is not overturned. If the membership desires a representation election after this seniority integration is completed, that would be the best time to conduct one.
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Old 17th Dec 2001, 19:47
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Downin3green:

Have you been smoking crack?
What does carrying flight bags and screen names have to do with seniority intergration?
TWA pilots flying for other companies?
Don't know what you are talking about do you?

Come back when you sober up and we can have a chat.

As for the "******" handle: Did not think anybody was naive enough too take it seriously, guess I was wrong.

The TWA guys are free to negotiate their new seniority, to take legal action, (Like some of the Reno guys, they sued and lost) but what they have done to the AA guys is not acceptable:
First sign a statement waiving their right to third party arbitration, then turn around and wanting it back after AA rescues them.
It is called having your cake and eating it too.

Don't know what planet you are from if that stuff is okay with you, but I sure don't want to go there.
Hope I won't see ya in Santiago either.

[ 17 December 2001: Message edited by: TowerDog ]
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Old 18th Dec 2001, 02:57
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Tower Dog is right on, but lets not forget that most of the TWA pilots are happy to be with AA and DO NOT dispute the APA integration proposal which, by the way, is more than fair.
AA/TWA is not a merger, it is a rescue. Like it or not had AA not bought TWA they would be finished and the conduct of some of the TWA pilots, particular their ALPA leadership is beyond contempt! Lying to their own membership, to local politicians, abrigating on agreements they made with AA to secure the purchase, refusing to let APA come and present their seniority proposal to the TWA pilots in St.Louis, and on and on.
If that is the position of ALPA as a whole, than I don'thave to tell you were you can shove it!
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Old 18th Dec 2001, 05:58
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http://www.aa-alpa.org/
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Old 18th Dec 2001, 06:13
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There is ZERO chance that APA will move to ALPA after the debacle with the TWA.
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Old 18th Dec 2001, 11:57
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Level 5: Thanks for the link. Interesting sight. I see the note"If FedEx, American, and Southwest Airlines...." I didn't know Southwest was interested in switching, too.
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Old 18th Dec 2001, 19:19
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The move to ALPA at AA may be a political necessity at some point but now is NOT the time. We can only handle one catastrophe at a time!
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