Was it a MAYDAY at EDI?
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Was it a MAYDAY at EDI?
An aircraft has had to make an emergency landing at Edinburgh Airport.
The Dash-8 Flybe plane had 36 people on board when crew members were forced to shut down one of its two turboprop engines on Monday morning.
The airport was put on full emergency alert after the plane's captain put out a mayday call at 0740 BST.
The plane, which had been travelling from Manchester, landed safely and all on board were evacuated just after 0800 BST.
The Dash-8 Flybe plane had 36 people on board when crew members were forced to shut down one of its two turboprop engines on Monday morning.
The airport was put on full emergency alert after the plane's captain put out a mayday call at 0740 BST.
The plane, which had been travelling from Manchester, landed safely and all on board were evacuated just after 0800 BST.
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I somehow doubt that it was an actual 'Mayday' - more likely to be a 'PAN'.
A Dash 8 on one donk with 36 aboard is hardly the stuff of a full blown Mayday, surely?
A Dash 8 on one donk with 36 aboard is hardly the stuff of a full blown Mayday, surely?
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Is it just me or does the Dash-8 seem to have a bit of a history of precautionary engine shut downs? I think a lot of Q400 problems have been blamed on faulty sensors?
For any engine loss on a twin, I would say a MAYDAY is always appropriate.
That's why you shouldn't be posting on a PROFESSIONAL pilots forum! 
For any engine loss on a twin, I would say a MAYDAY is always appropriate.
I somehow doubt that it was an actual 'Mayday' - more likely to be a 'PAN'.
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How many souls make a PAN become a MAYDAY
I was under the potentially false impression - at least following Xeque's mail - that it was the severity of the problem and thus the RISK that determines whether a Captain calls a PAN or a MAYDAY.
If Xeque is correct therefore the formula for a MAYDAY must be >(36+crew) which is thus probably >40.
The thought occurs as to whether there is a call between a PAN and a MAYDAY - and if there is - is it a PAYDAY or a PANDA.
On the assumption that the intermediate call is a PAYDAY - a PAN would therefore be <(pax+crew = 28) as February is the shortest month - and between pax+ crew = 28 to 31 would it be the captains call or does it just vary by month? We would also need advice as to how to handle non-western calenders !
If Xeque is correct therefore the formula for a MAYDAY must be >(36+crew) which is thus probably >40.
The thought occurs as to whether there is a call between a PAN and a MAYDAY - and if there is - is it a PAYDAY or a PANDA.
On the assumption that the intermediate call is a PAYDAY - a PAN would therefore be <(pax+crew = 28) as February is the shortest month - and between pax+ crew = 28 to 31 would it be the captains call or does it just vary by month? We would also need advice as to how to handle non-western calenders !
Looks like I'll have to try something else, hmmm!! Yes, yipee, it's payday .. off to the pub 
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Nearly Man
You lost it??? How careless can you be? Must do better next time.
PS If you still cant find it, look under the wing. You often find engines hangin around there.
You lost it??? How careless can you be? Must do better next time.
PS If you still cant find it, look under the wing. You often find engines hangin around there.
Warning Toxic!
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The number of bottoms on seats makes no difference. If I was in that situation, MY bottom would be up there, and that, to me, in a twin that is no longer a 'twin' is a major emergency! I would want runway cleared, world to stop turning, and everyone to shaddup! OK. So some would say 'Mayday', and in the UK some would say 'Pan', but remember once out of the shores of Her Majesty's realm, probably nobody would know what the hell you meant by 'Pan Pan', so nobody is going to criticise you for saying 'Mayday!' OK? The important thing is to say something that makes everybody understand your ass is in danger and please shaddup and keep the runway clear because on one I don't want to go around under any circumstances just because some thicko is trying to delay turning off to the best exit for himself! Does that make it clear enough?
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Does that make it clear enough?
(sorry - couln't resist that!)
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I know we've had some differences in the past RB, but I'm getting all concilliatory in old age, and I agree with you 100 %
Oh no, I've gone and posted where I'm not qualified to !!!
Now I'm in for it !!!
Oh no, I've gone and posted where I'm not qualified to !!!
Now I'm in for it !!!
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I certainly was involved in a fair number of engine failures with twin-jets at Heathrow and never recall a Mayday being called. In one case, in LVPs, the engine-out occurred on a go-around when the RVR dropped and the aircraft diverted to manchester on one engine!
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Mercenary Pilot:
Is it just me or does the Dash-8 seem to have a bit of a history of precautionary engine shut downs? I think a lot of Q400 problems have been blamed on faulty sensors?
For any engine loss on a twin, I would say a MAYDAY is always appropriate.
Quote:
I somehow doubt that it was an actual 'Mayday' - more likely to be a 'PAN'.
That's why you shouldn't be posting on a PROFESSIONAL pilots forum!
How arrogant is that remark? Your comment "....I would say...." shows that you are basing your opinion on a feeble guess at what you think is correct, without any official guidline to support the theory.
This has been done to death before. The ICAO / JAA etc. definition of MAYDAY states "......the aircraft is in imminent danger....." or words to that effect whereas the PAN definition is of a less serious assistance-requirement. Both are printed on the web somewhere but I don't have the time to trawl for them right now.
I've had three precautionary engine shutdowns on twin engine aircraft and have always deemed the situation a PAN since I was never in IMMINENT DANGER (ie no fire etc.)
Notwithstanding the above, I am reliably informed by an ATCO that ATC's MATS reference considers any aircraft with 50% or more of power units u/s to be under a MAYDAY situation.
Yet again, pilot's and ATC's guidelines differ.
Is it just me or does the Dash-8 seem to have a bit of a history of precautionary engine shut downs? I think a lot of Q400 problems have been blamed on faulty sensors?
For any engine loss on a twin, I would say a MAYDAY is always appropriate.
Quote:
I somehow doubt that it was an actual 'Mayday' - more likely to be a 'PAN'.
That's why you shouldn't be posting on a PROFESSIONAL pilots forum!
How arrogant is that remark? Your comment "....I would say...." shows that you are basing your opinion on a feeble guess at what you think is correct, without any official guidline to support the theory.
This has been done to death before. The ICAO / JAA etc. definition of MAYDAY states "......the aircraft is in imminent danger....." or words to that effect whereas the PAN definition is of a less serious assistance-requirement. Both are printed on the web somewhere but I don't have the time to trawl for them right now.
I've had three precautionary engine shutdowns on twin engine aircraft and have always deemed the situation a PAN since I was never in IMMINENT DANGER (ie no fire etc.)
Notwithstanding the above, I am reliably informed by an ATCO that ATC's MATS reference considers any aircraft with 50% or more of power units u/s to be under a MAYDAY situation.
Yet again, pilot's and ATC's guidelines differ.
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Actually ATC guidelines regarding Mayday or Pan are the same as you quoted. The ATC guideline referring to 50% power is that a full emergency should be declared. This is a direction to the emergency services as to the level of response that is required.
Just to confirm, the aircraft did declare a mayday. I for one am not going to argue. The only way at all I can see it being an issue is if you happen to be unlucky enough to have a pan aircraft and a mayday aircraft at the same time.
The Mayday call got everyones attention, woke everyone up on a monday morning and the problem was dealt with.
Sorted and everyone back to work.
Just to confirm, the aircraft did declare a mayday. I for one am not going to argue. The only way at all I can see it being an issue is if you happen to be unlucky enough to have a pan aircraft and a mayday aircraft at the same time.
The Mayday call got everyones attention, woke everyone up on a monday morning and the problem was dealt with.
Sorted and everyone back to work.
You could always go the whole hog....leave the wheels up and make it a PANCAKEDAY!!! 
Ah yes the old Tech Log gag eh?
DEF. Left engine missing.
ACT. Left engine located under left wing after brief search.
The old ones are the best.
Nearly Man
You lost it??? How careless can you be? Must do better next time.
PS If you still cant find it, look under the wing. You often find engines hangin around there.
You lost it??? How careless can you be? Must do better next time.
PS If you still cant find it, look under the wing. You often find engines hangin around there.
DEF. Left engine missing.
ACT. Left engine located under left wing after brief search.
The old ones are the best.
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If I was in that situation, MY bottom would be up there, and that, to me, in a twin that is no longer a 'twin' is a major emergency! I would want runway cleared, world to stop turning, and everyone to shaddup
To me, loss of a Q400 engine puts the viability of the craft at risk and requires immediate action.
As for the poor bloke worried sick about the AFRS turning out - no doubt he'd sue if he didn't see the pretty flashing blue lights following her up the runway...
Lastly, as indicated here and in places like Avnet on these shores, Q400 has a few issues needing ironed out...
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At the risk of thread creep, its a MAYDAY in my book..I don't care if any of you steely jawed Chuck Yeager impersonators are happy with a PAN, if I'm down to one servicable powerplant..thats a MAYDAY.
This whole PAN business is just a UK way of overcomplicating a situation....I suppose Nigel felt happy when he wrote the rule
This whole PAN business is just a UK way of overcomplicating a situation....I suppose Nigel felt happy when he wrote the rule