Spotters asked to prevent terrorism!
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If my memory serves me correctly, one of the Mortar attacks on LHR took place from the car park of a well known adjacent hotel. The Police, Spotters and Hotel Staff not spot anything.
As for the terrorists, I believe that History records that they came from Northern Ireland which is part of the UK, their beef was with a administration that had invaded their patch and limited their religious, cultural and personal freedoms.
Thus we had UK home grown terrorists, acting against the UK establishment because they had invaded somewhere in the past and pi$$ed the locals off.
Anything new today?.........Other than the "must be sen to be doing something" attitude?
The whole public has a requirment to report possible unlawfull activity. Simply reminding a part of the community of their obligations and getting them onside can not be seen in a negative way can it?
Don't forget that MI5 and MI6 were founded by an Irishman...Not from Northern Ireland but from Kerry!!!
Regards,
DFC
As for the terrorists, I believe that History records that they came from Northern Ireland which is part of the UK, their beef was with a administration that had invaded their patch and limited their religious, cultural and personal freedoms.
Thus we had UK home grown terrorists, acting against the UK establishment because they had invaded somewhere in the past and pi$$ed the locals off.
Anything new today?.........Other than the "must be sen to be doing something" attitude?
The whole public has a requirment to report possible unlawfull activity. Simply reminding a part of the community of their obligations and getting them onside can not be seen in a negative way can it?
Don't forget that MI5 and MI6 were founded by an Irishman...Not from Northern Ireland but from Kerry!!!
Regards,
DFC
Forewarned is Forearmed
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I agree Avman, especially when a new face turns up near a regular group of enthusiats, the first thing thats noticed is that they are new, & if they are really up to speed with the latest in whats going on, as its in their nature usually to to find out whats new on a strangers patch, as regards aircraft etc etc.
Where I work all the regular enthusiasts are known to the Police & have been briefed & no doubt checked out by them, also they have been told what to look out for & the steps to take, if suspicious of anyone or anything.
from what I have been told the last meeting held was well attended by the enthusiasts (Spotters).
Where I work all the regular enthusiasts are known to the Police & have been briefed & no doubt checked out by them, also they have been told what to look out for & the steps to take, if suspicious of anyone or anything.
from what I have been told the last meeting held was well attended by the enthusiasts (Spotters).
Just remember. It was Spotters who logged and catalogued the illegal US rendition flights all over Europe. Flights whose existence was totally denied from all quarters.
A lot of sharp and informed people occupy the ranks of the spotters.
More power to their elbows.
A lot of sharp and informed people occupy the ranks of the spotters.
More power to their elbows.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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AVMan
To be fair, while there are differences, would the public know? Possibly not, have a look at some of the bigger Canon Lenses in the 600mm bracket.
Yes, an ex mil person would probably know, so would a photographer who was into very large lenes, but avarage punter? Doubt it.
From what I recall being near the fence with a SAM isn't a problem, it wouldn't have time to fuse before it hit, if it could hit at that range, it's someone in one of the parks a couple of miles out thats the worry on that one.
El G
Yes, and while they are looking inside the world could end around them, they'd not notice, as experience shows.
DFC, correct attack 1 did come from the car park of a hotel, nothing was noticed, because the drove into the car park, parked and left a few minutes before it went off. All parties are currently doing time for it. The spotter community would not have been of any use there anyway, as its not a place the airport can be seen properly, a pub and police Station being in the way.
As for the Irish history lesson, it's not quite accurate.
To be fair, while there are differences, would the public know? Possibly not, have a look at some of the bigger Canon Lenses in the 600mm bracket.
Yes, an ex mil person would probably know, so would a photographer who was into very large lenes, but avarage punter? Doubt it.
From what I recall being near the fence with a SAM isn't a problem, it wouldn't have time to fuse before it hit, if it could hit at that range, it's someone in one of the parks a couple of miles out thats the worry on that one.
El G
Yes, and while they are looking inside the world could end around them, they'd not notice, as experience shows.
DFC, correct attack 1 did come from the car park of a hotel, nothing was noticed, because the drove into the car park, parked and left a few minutes before it went off. All parties are currently doing time for it. The spotter community would not have been of any use there anyway, as its not a place the airport can be seen properly, a pub and police Station being in the way.
As for the Irish history lesson, it's not quite accurate.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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The Achilles heal in security is down route - the Malagas, Pahos's, Corfus of this world. Locations where British aircraft fly in and out of regularly where the airport security may leave something to be desired and where the perimeter watch is near non-existent.
I flew BA out of Paphos in 2005 and as we went through the metal detecting frame the two "security" staff were laughing and joking and not looking at the machine at all! It is the poor crew - who depend on good passenger security, apron security and perimeter security -
that I feel for.
El Al were lucky in Mombasa. We mustn't have another such incident.
I flew BA out of Paphos in 2005 and as we went through the metal detecting frame the two "security" staff were laughing and joking and not looking at the machine at all! It is the poor crew - who depend on good passenger security, apron security and perimeter security -
that I feel for.El Al were lucky in Mombasa. We mustn't have another such incident.
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Not one myself, but spotters are here to stay. In any case why should they be prevented from the freedom of pursuing their perfectly harmless hobby. Whilst, as in ANY security measures taken, they may not be a 100% deterent, I see no harm in taking them on board as an extra set of eyes. As for those of you suggesting that a long lens may resemble a missile launcher, I think you're imagination is getting the better of you. Finally, if a terrorist is armed with a half decent ground-to-air piece of equipment, he doesn't need to use it next to the perimeter fence. 3 to 4 miles on the approach will do just fine. Have any of you anti brigade read about the excellent scheme operating at some of the major Canadian airports?
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Originally Posted by Sobelena
I see no harm in taking them on board as an extra set of eyes. As for those of you suggesting that a long lens may resemble a missile launcher, I think you're imagination is getting the better of you. Finally, if a terrorist is armed with a half decent ground-to-air piece of equipment, he doesn't need to use it next to the perimeter fence. 3 to 4 miles on the approach will do just fine. Have any of you anti brigade read about the excellent scheme operating at some of the major Canadian airports?
While most of what bjcc has posted is tripe of the first order, I have to agree with his basic premise: most spotters wouldn't know a terrorist if one bit them in the @ss. For a start they are generally looking the wrong way, and they would probably just end up reporting the suspicious individuals who appear whenever an airplane with a blue 6-pointed star on its tail is due
.Seems to me the only "benefit" of this is to get an ID card which allows the plod to check you out in fairly short order. Most plods anyway
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How do you judge the Canadian schemes to be excellent - have they caught any terrorists yet ?
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Any suspicious activity should be reported, never mind any that might be spotted by plane spotters.
But what is suspicious activity.
I had some Asians park their van on three consecutive nights at the back of my house which is a dark off road parking area.
After some banging about in the back of the van they left in seperate cars only to return half hour later and drive the van off.
So whats that all about.
But what is suspicious activity.
I had some Asians park their van on three consecutive nights at the back of my house which is a dark off road parking area.
After some banging about in the back of the van they left in seperate cars only to return half hour later and drive the van off.
So whats that all about.
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What some people forget is that when you ring the airport to report something suspect you have to get past the switchboard operator, that's assuming you have time to wait for the "Push 1 for Fred, Push 2 for Harry" dialog.
Will we get gold stars to sew on our anoraks?
People, you mock!
Yep, I agree that's a possibility. But you get more than your job's worth from a host of (non-spotter) idiots in and around airports now. However, the idea of the scheme as I understand it is that it is not for the AIRPORT WATCH (spotters) to challenge or control the public. It is for them to report anything they deem suspicious to airport police/security.
I acknowledge that this is said tongue-in-cheek. Nevertheless, again it must be said that the scheme ensures that the AIRPORT WATCHERS have direct telephone access to police/security.
However without meaning to insult the vast majority there would be a small minority who might be transformed into Officer Dufuss at the slightest hint of any semi official status...just my opinion
What some people forget is that when you ring the airport to report something suspect you have to get past the switchboard operator, that's assuming you have time to wait for the "Push 1 for Fred, Push 2 for Harry" dialog.
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Telegraph article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nplane118.xml
Some brilliant quotes in there, tee-hee
Some brilliant quotes in there, tee-hee
Quotes from a misinformed public which has been fed misleading info by the press. It is not the intention that the airport watch team challenge any suspicious person or persons, nor that they in any way challenge, control or "police" members of the public. They have NO powers whatsoever. They are simply asked to observe and if they see anything suspicious, report their sightings to the responsible authority. Will they in their "enthusiasm" over react from time to time? Quite possibly yes. But no more than the ignorant public react to spotters around an airport (especially in paranoid USA). Will this scheme be totally effective in combatting terrorism? No, absolutely not. Nor are all the other existing farcical security measures presently in place!
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sounds like a very good idea to use this resource. Pity the authorities are so negative about an even more vital and useful security resource, that of the flight crews themselves. Rather than work with this group, they are intent on treating them in the most awkward, humiliating and obstructive manner possible
