Fort Lauderdale near-collision.
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Fort Lauderdale near-collision.
Two planes came within 100 feet of colliding at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport after one missed its turn onto a taxiway and entered the runway where the other was about to land, federal authorities said.
Air traffic controllers noticed a plane entering a runway Wednesday as Delta Flight 1489 approached the same runway for a landing, Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said.
The controllers alerted the Delta crew to pull up and circle the airport to avoid United Flight 1544, which had missed a turn onto another taxiway, Bergen said.
Air traffic controllers noticed a plane entering a runway Wednesday as Delta Flight 1489 approached the same runway for a landing, Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said.
The controllers alerted the Delta crew to pull up and circle the airport to avoid United Flight 1544, which had missed a turn onto another taxiway, Bergen said.
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NTSB Preliminary:
On July 11, 2007, at 1437 Eastern daylight time a runway incursion occurred at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport, (FLL), Fort Lauderdale, Florida between United (UAL) flight 1544, an A-320 and Delta Airlines (DAL) flight 1489, a Boeing 757. The incident occurred in day visual flight rules conditions, visibility 10 miles, scattered clouds at 4,800 feet.
The FLL ground controller (GC) instructed UAL1544 to taxi to runway 9L via taxiways T7, D, and B. As the flight was taxiing on taxiway D near runway 9L, the tower local controller (LC) noticed the airplane was going too fast to hold short of the runway. LC told the GC to tell UAL to stop. The GC said "UAL 1544 stop, stop, stop". The crew stopped on runway 9L, 30 feet from the centerline.
DAL1489 was inbound for landing on runway 9L when LC determined that UAL1544 was not going to hold short of the runway. LC instructed DAL1489 to go around. When the crew received the instruction, the main landing gear was on the ground. According to the crew statement, they noted the urgency in the controller's voice so they knew they had to get the aircraft airborne. FAA reported DAL1489 flew over UAL1544 by less than 100 feet.
According to the FAA, the UAL crew stated they missed the turn onto taxiway B.
FLL air traffic control tower is not equipped with either AMASS or ASDE-X. All airport lighting was functioning normally.
Airport Diagram.
NTSB Identification: OPS07IA006B
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of UNITED AIRLINES INC
Incident occurred Wednesday, July 11, 2007 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
Aircraft: Airbus A-320, registration:
Injuries: 172 Uninjured.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of UNITED AIRLINES INC
Incident occurred Wednesday, July 11, 2007 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
Aircraft: Airbus A-320, registration:
Injuries: 172 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On July 11, 2007, at 1437 Eastern daylight time a runway incursion occurred at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport, (FLL), Fort Lauderdale, Florida between United (UAL) flight 1544, an A-320 and Delta Airlines (DAL) flight 1489, a Boeing 757. The incident occurred in day visual flight rules conditions, visibility 10 miles, scattered clouds at 4,800 feet.
The FLL ground controller (GC) instructed UAL1544 to taxi to runway 9L via taxiways T7, D, and B. As the flight was taxiing on taxiway D near runway 9L, the tower local controller (LC) noticed the airplane was going too fast to hold short of the runway. LC told the GC to tell UAL to stop. The GC said "UAL 1544 stop, stop, stop". The crew stopped on runway 9L, 30 feet from the centerline.
DAL1489 was inbound for landing on runway 9L when LC determined that UAL1544 was not going to hold short of the runway. LC instructed DAL1489 to go around. When the crew received the instruction, the main landing gear was on the ground. According to the crew statement, they noted the urgency in the controller's voice so they knew they had to get the aircraft airborne. FAA reported DAL1489 flew over UAL1544 by less than 100 feet.
According to the FAA, the UAL crew stated they missed the turn onto taxiway B.
FLL air traffic control tower is not equipped with either AMASS or ASDE-X. All airport lighting was functioning normally.
they noted the urgency in the controller's voice so they knew they had to get the aircraft airborne
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Originally Posted by bomarc
...doing too much inside instead of watching outside.
Unless the clearance did not include a "hold short" admonition - in which case as per US custom, you are in fact cleared to cross any and all runways in your path
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in which case as per US custom, you are in fact cleared to cross any and all runways in your path
14 CFR 91.129
(i) Takeoff, landing, taxi clearance. No person may, at any airport with an operating control tower, operate an aircraft on a runway or taxiway, or take off or land an aircraft, unless an appropriate clearance is received from ATC. A clearance to “taxi to” the takeoff runway assigned to the aircraft is not a clearance to cross that assigned takeoff runway, or to taxi on that runway at any point, but is a clearance to cross other runways that intersect the taxi route to that assigned takeoff runway. A clearance to “taxi to” any point other than an assigned takeoff runway is clearance to cross all runways that intersect the taxi route to that point.
According to NTSB, the clearance was to 9L via T7, D, and B.
Airport diagram here: http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0707/00744AD.PDF
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woah thats a pretty late go around, if the main wheels were on the ground then the spoilers would have been up. Nasty stuff, glad it worked out but a little too close for comfort.
As people have said why could the landing plane not see that there was a jet on the runway? As soon as I'm below 500ft my eyes are always outside the aircraft way more then inside!
As people have said why could the landing plane not see that there was a jet on the runway? As soon as I'm below 500ft my eyes are always outside the aircraft way more then inside!
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Good job by the controllers...
As for the DL crew, Paper tiger...you obvivously don't know ****e from shinola...On finals of course you observe the runway, but sometimes the unexpected happens anyway...remember the UsAir B-737 and Metro at LAX? VMC night conditions however careful monitoring of the radio may have prevented that one...what about the EAL B-727 in 1989 or 1990 that crushed a King Air in ATL during night IMC?...
I am always posed for a "go-around" and if in fact DL's gear was on the ground, they were all ready "on the go" as must be evidenced by engine "spool-up", or else they either weren't "on the ground" or didn't use auto spoilers.
As for the UAL crew, they were probably just talking useless ALPO BS instead of taking care of business...
As for the DL crew, Paper tiger...you obvivously don't know ****e from shinola...On finals of course you observe the runway, but sometimes the unexpected happens anyway...remember the UsAir B-737 and Metro at LAX? VMC night conditions however careful monitoring of the radio may have prevented that one...what about the EAL B-727 in 1989 or 1990 that crushed a King Air in ATL during night IMC?...
I am always posed for a "go-around" and if in fact DL's gear was on the ground, they were all ready "on the go" as must be evidenced by engine "spool-up", or else they either weren't "on the ground" or didn't use auto spoilers.
As for the UAL crew, they were probably just talking useless ALPO BS instead of taking care of business...
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Originally Posted by DownIn3Green
Good job by the controllers...
As for the DL crew, Paper tiger...you obvivously don't know ****e from shinola...On finals of course you observe the runway,
As for the DL crew, Paper tiger...you obvivously don't know ****e from shinola...On finals of course you observe the runway,
A taxi clearance lacking any hold short/cross instructions is symptomatic of the imprecise chatter which passes for ATC at many US airports. Telling someone to taxi to runway 9 assumes the crew has the nous to know that doesn't mean enter the runway.
And we all know what assume does, don't we ?
Last edited by PaperTiger; 17th Jul 2007 at 21:17.
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PaperTiger and others:
having instructed in the USA and flown the line, the concept of taxiing to a runway is ingrained since private pilot training. It is our regulations and part of the testing process. The taxi clearance is very understandable in this case. and you may cross all runways to get there except for the runway you are taxiing to. Those are the rules. pilots know them and it is not an assumption.
I would like to also point out that the USAIR 737 at LAX might not have seen the Metroliner on the runway as there is a bit of a dip in the runway and the 737 crew had been looking into the sun for 4 hours or so, descending into the dusk of landing.
I would also like to point out that CROSSING or Taxiing onto ANY RUNWAY demands a visual scan in both directions prior to crossing or going into position...if you see a plane landing on the runway you are crossing, you might want to double check with ATC prior to proceeding.
the united pilots made a mistake, a big one. united has done some pretty dumb things in the past. I recall one event in Providence , Rhode Island, USA and still shake my head.
There is some concern about Delta not scanning the runway during the landing, but in the final analysis they had a clearance...but so did USAIR at LAX.
ATC (ground control) made a mistake by not keeping an eye on the situation and it is lucky that Local Control saw the problem (tower).
ATC is overworked in the USA.
Pilots feel the need for speed while taxiing...I've always felt that all checklists should be done prior to leaving the gate area and have the ground crew do a visual check of the flaps before releasing the plane for taxi.
in this way the pilots can concentrate on "driving the plane" around the airport.
When we see someone taxiing so fast in the US, we politely say on the radio (RT to you on the other side): VEE ONE...some get the message.
having instructed in the USA and flown the line, the concept of taxiing to a runway is ingrained since private pilot training. It is our regulations and part of the testing process. The taxi clearance is very understandable in this case. and you may cross all runways to get there except for the runway you are taxiing to. Those are the rules. pilots know them and it is not an assumption.
I would like to also point out that the USAIR 737 at LAX might not have seen the Metroliner on the runway as there is a bit of a dip in the runway and the 737 crew had been looking into the sun for 4 hours or so, descending into the dusk of landing.
I would also like to point out that CROSSING or Taxiing onto ANY RUNWAY demands a visual scan in both directions prior to crossing or going into position...if you see a plane landing on the runway you are crossing, you might want to double check with ATC prior to proceeding.
the united pilots made a mistake, a big one. united has done some pretty dumb things in the past. I recall one event in Providence , Rhode Island, USA and still shake my head.
There is some concern about Delta not scanning the runway during the landing, but in the final analysis they had a clearance...but so did USAIR at LAX.
ATC (ground control) made a mistake by not keeping an eye on the situation and it is lucky that Local Control saw the problem (tower).
ATC is overworked in the USA.
Pilots feel the need for speed while taxiing...I've always felt that all checklists should be done prior to leaving the gate area and have the ground crew do a visual check of the flaps before releasing the plane for taxi.
in this way the pilots can concentrate on "driving the plane" around the airport.
When we see someone taxiing so fast in the US, we politely say on the radio (RT to you on the other side): VEE ONE...some get the message.
Before you combatants argue it out any more, denigrate a system that at least one of you shows ignorance about and then solves the Iraq war, remember that UA crossed a runway it shouldn't have from the info we know now.
Try waiting for the rest of the information and when informed of the facts continue.
Try waiting for the rest of the information and when informed of the facts continue.
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Originally Posted by West Coast
Try waiting for the rest of the information and when informed of the facts continue.
What rest of the information should we be waiting for ?
BTW, I think you forgot this :
Are you talking about the PRELIMINARY report?
There that and then there's the finished product. I like to wait till the facts are known, but carry on if you don't. As well, the tangents you have been heading off far exceed what's in the report or the incident in general.
There that and then there's the finished product. I like to wait till the facts are known, but carry on if you don't. As well, the tangents you have been heading off far exceed what's in the report or the incident in general.
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bomarc says
Just how many pairs of eyes to you expect one guy to have? As a pilot you are well aware of just how many a/c are taxying at any one time at an airport such as FLL. UNITED missed the left turn from D to B. The distance from that point to entering 9L/27R is minimal, and at a taxi speed which could have been around the 20-30kt mark, it would have taken no time at all to reach the active. I would therefore say that, ON THE CONTRARY, the Ground controller was in fact pretty quick to react.
ATC (ground control) made a mistake by not keeping an eye on the situation
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As an ATCO my reading of the report and looking at the aerodrome diagram implies that the only ones who droped a brick were the United crew.
The GC issued perfectly understandable taxi instructions, which, although the report doesn't state specifically, I assume were correctly read back.
The Delta crew were in receipt of a landing clearance and were in the final moments of approach. I doubt if they were even looking to the right of the runway for intrusions and wouldn't have appreciated that the United was incursing until too late.
The GC having issued the clearance and cleaned the taxi route would be looking elsewhere for other taxying traffic.
The runway belongs to the LC and he did EXACTLY what was expected of him. He saw that the runway he had allocated to the Delta was compromised and took action to protect it. In the few seconds that it took the United to cross the holding point,for LC to reallise it, get a through to GC and stop the United I feel was a brilliant job.
It was tight but thank God everyone walked away to fly another day.
Congratulations to FLL GC, LC and Delta flight crew.
Surf Bum
As an ATCO my reading of the report and looking at the aerodrome diagram implies that the only ones who droped a brick were the United crew.
The GC issued perfectly understandable taxi instructions, which, although the report doesn't state specifically, I assume were correctly read back.
The Delta crew were in receipt of a landing clearance and were in the final moments of approach. I doubt if they were even looking to the right of the runway for intrusions and wouldn't have appreciated that the United was incursing until too late.
The GC having issued the clearance and cleaned the taxi route would be looking elsewhere for other taxying traffic.
The runway belongs to the LC and he did EXACTLY what was expected of him. He saw that the runway he had allocated to the Delta was compromised and took action to protect it. In the few seconds that it took the United to cross the holding point,for LC to reallise it, get a through to GC and stop the United I feel was a brilliant job.
It was tight but thank God everyone walked away to fly another day.
Congratulations to FLL GC, LC and Delta flight crew.
Surf Bum
