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Terror incident at Glasgow Airport

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Terror incident at Glasgow Airport

Old 2nd Jul 2007, 16:16
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if the current rebuild of the front of Heathrow T3 is about to get a hasty rethink, or whether they'd already planned to make it harder to get in with a vehicle? Hindsight is amazingly effective, sometimes.
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Old 2nd Jul 2007, 16:35
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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The attack at Glasgow was amateurish and should not be used to determine airport layout and the spending of vast sums.

A simple line of bollards (like you see in pedestrian areas in cities) on say 2m spacing inside the kerb line would suffice to stop vehicle penetration towards any building, while still allowing free access for pedestrians to/from the vehicles. Just install them sufficiently inside the kerb line to allow vehicle doors to open (I offer this advice as it is apparent that airport operators generally do not have a clue about such matters). A contractor could install these along the complete terminal frontage at Glasgow and elsewhere in a few days and usage of the roadway be resumed as normal - and hasn't the government said they want to continue as normal.

Unfortunately a number of airport operators have seized a heaven-sent opportunity today to increase their revenue after this incident and direct all incoming vehicles into their short-term car parks to drop off, where the users have to pay. Airports have long had the drop-off traffic in their sights as yet another revenue stream to plunder, and this has given them the chance to slip it in while pretending it is all in aid of security. This is a completely unacceptable approach, to profiteer on the back of the events in Glasgow.
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Old 2nd Jul 2007, 18:33
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Unfortunately a number of airport operators have seized a heaven-sent opportunity today to increase their revenue after this incident and direct all incoming vehicles into their short-term car parks to drop off, where the users have to pay. Airports have long had the drop-off traffic in their sights as yet another revenue stream to plunder, and this has given them the chance to slip it in while pretending it is all in aid of security. This is a completely unacceptable approach, to profiteer on the back of the events in Glasgow.
It is the DFT that has not allowed any privatly owned traffic to drive in front of the terminals of the UK airports. And just like to point out that not all airports have an instant parking charge policy at their short stay car parks. e.g. CWL that has the first 30 mins free ( more than enough to drop passengers or pick them up).

Many car parks at airports are operested by Private company's such as NCP. Wouldn't the airport advise them of what charges to apply as long as long as the parking companies get their fare share of the profit.
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 00:55
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM
A simple line of bollards (like you see in pedestrian areas in cities) on say 2m spacing inside the kerb line would suffice to stop vehicle penetration towards any building, while still allowing free access for pedestrians to/from the vehicles. Just install them sufficiently inside the kerb line to allow vehicle doors to open (I offer this advice as it is apparent that airport operators generally do not have a clue about such matters). A contractor could install these along the complete terminal frontage at Glasgow and elsewhere in a few days and usage of the roadway be resumed as normal - and hasn't the government said they want to continue as normal.
Great idea! The terrorists will never think of getting a car that is less than 2m wide! I can see them now, ramming their Hummer against the bollards trying to access the building. Lets hope they don't use something narrow like a Jeep Cherokee. I wonder how effective bollards are against a car bomb adjacent to the building.

Lets get real here. Even our in-house security publications warned of the vulnerability of terminal buildings to VBIEDS over 2 years ago, yet nothing meaningful has been done at many UK airports to stop someone pulling up right outside. If we knew about it the authorities certainly knew about it, but it costs money to take effective preventative measures. The Glasgow attack has simply demonstrated what happens when you take half-hearted measures to counter a very real threat.
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 01:19
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Operating into Uk now and security ?

I am flying a trip into Manchester from the US this week.

Wondering what we might expect as Pilots for a US airline now in the way of extra delays / hassles with enhanced security.

Any information would be welcome
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 02:15
  #86 (permalink)  
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I am amazed to see that the Glasgow fire was being hosed to little effect with what appears to be water. Is there any reason why they didn't use the same foam that should be used for aircraft fires? They didn't seem to have nearly as much success as I did recently with a 1 kg of dry power.

I was always told that you didn't use water to put out a petrol fire.
I presume they'll were using the water to cool the propane gas cylinders to stop them exploding.
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 04:13
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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The aviation risk remains unchanged, it is the general risk category that has been changed. However, do not expect your transport to the hotel to drop you off/pick you up directly outside the terminal.
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 07:35
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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They used water to extinguish the flames as there was not that much petrol about. Other factors to be considered were that they were at a car which had rammed the building and could explode anytime and it could be easily seen that there were gas jets emmiting from the side of the vehicle. Therefore water was used from behind whatever cover was available. Hose reels were used initially as time is required to set into a fire hydrant, a reel will provide water for some 20 minutes while the main line would empty the tank in 30 seconds. The appliances carry foam tanks and they were subsequentl;y used but this had to wait until the appliances were connected to hydrants.
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 12:32
  #89 (permalink)  

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Thanks for the info, it did seem from the TV pictures that the water was doing very little to put the fire out.
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 17:10
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately a number of airport operators have seized a heaven-sent opportunity today to increase their revenue after this incident and direct all incoming vehicles into their short-term car parks to drop off, where the users have to pay. Airports have long had the drop-off traffic in their sights as yet another revenue stream to plunder, and this has given them the chance to slip it in while pretending it is all in aid of security. This is a completely unacceptable approach, to profiteer on the back of the events in Glasgow.
Totally agree, Liverpool currently has some sort of work going on where the normal pick up/drop off is so all traffic is directed to the car park. However, they have changed the pricing so the 1st 10 minutes is free and made a pick up/drop off point in the car park. That's what all of the airports should be doing.
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Old 3rd Jul 2007, 23:40
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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terrorist pilot?? how easy?

With the current issues regarding the 'terrorist doctors', who naturally would have to get through a certain degree of screening. (Be is security or psychiatric)

It seems to me that if these people can get jobs as doctors, how difficult would it be for them to be employed as airline pilots and do the unthinkable?

Possibly they were doctors before they joined the dark side, but if doctors can be persuaded to join the extremist group then the same could surely apply to pilots...possibly a pointless discussion but surely valid?
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 08:31
  #92 (permalink)  

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Pointless, not valid
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 09:18
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry Roy, but I believe it's very valid! It most probably will happen sometime in the not too distant future, and no present security system will be able to prevent it.
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 14:48
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Roy, I have to say your retort is pointless and invalid. Sadly, as a pilot myself we must accept that AQ are capable of placing any operative into any profession including ours. Like it or not, it's the sad truth and although we may all kick up about Airport Security and the assoc. aggro, we have little else to defend us and the travelling public.

The World has changed, much for the worse and I cannot see an answer in the short or medium term - possibly a generation.

Depressing thought...
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 19:18
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Snowploughs blocking the RVP

Snowploughs blocking the RVP
Driving past a well known airport tonight I see that the RVP gate is now blocked by a snowplough. Is this a case of security over safety? One supposes that if the keys for the gate an snowplough are kept together thatís fine but if not .....
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 19:40
  #96 (permalink)  
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...we must accept that AQ are capable of placing any operative into any profession including ours. Like it or not, it's the sad truth and although we may all kick up about Airport Security and the assoc. aggro, we have little else to defend us and the travelling public.
Errr... if AQ are going to put a 'sleeper' in as a pilot, how is the current security regime going to stop him? Oh, soryy, I forgot, he won't have any of that darned exploding toothpaste so he won't be able to manoeuvre the a/c and do the necessary damage.

As I mentioned on the other post about security, all we have is "Terror Theatre" which is managed by incompetents. Their only skills are smoke and mirrors vaudeville which they hope no one will ever really expose for the sham that it really is.

Like lambs to the slaughter, the travelling public follow the government hype and flock like sheep through the 'security' imposed on them at airports, all in the name of generating more money for those making the decisions. The terrorists have won and it is purely thanks to the failings of these pathetic decision makers who implement 'airport security theatre'.
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 21:25
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STN Ramp Rat - Reply No 96.....

EDI has one of its gates currently blocked airside by a roadsweeper, seems to be becoming common over the past few days.
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 22:28
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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all we have is "Terror Theatre" which is managed by incompetents. Their only skills are smoke and mirrors vaudeville which they hope no one will ever really expose for the sham that it really is.
Like lambs to the slaughter, the travelling public follow the government hype and flock like sheep through the 'security' imposed on them at airports, all in the name of generating more money for those making the decisions. The terrorists have won and it is purely thanks to the failings of these pathetic decision makers who implement 'airport security theatre'.
My sentiments exactly Cargo Boy. I recently flew out of BHX and I just had to laugh at the pityful new security measures designed to save us all from destruction. In actual fact, it won't in the least stop a determined suicidal vehicle attack on the terminal. And even if the baddies couldn't get close to the terminal they just have to detonate a car bomb in the now hopelessly overcrowded short stay car park (now used as the pick-up and drop-off area) which is teeming with people. It's all so pathetic. It won't be long before they will create drop-off / pick-up areas 5 miles from airports! But then they had better remember to ensure that they x-ray all baggage and persons before they reach the terminal!
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Old 4th Jul 2007, 22:38
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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What about a delivery truck full of all those goodies you now are obliged to buy "airside"? Certainly won't be going into the short-term carpark, with the stuff being carrried inside package by package by the driver
Admittedly, blowing it up at the delivery point won't kill as many people, but it would still make an almighty mess.

Yeah, let's have a five-mile perimeter, including for the airside goodies shops vultures.
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Old 5th Jul 2007, 03:52
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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but if doctors can be persuaded to join the extremist group then the same could surely apply to pilots...possibly a pointless discussion but surely valid?
Has a point Roy, as unlikely as it may be. Remember Silk 737 and Egypt 767. Also the unsuccessful Fedex DC-10 attempt. We don't know with certainty what made some of them do what they did but it's only a small step for those inclined to make randomairs proposition a reality.
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