Terror incident at Glasgow Airport

[Brian Abraham]

but if doctors can be persuaded to join the extremist group then the same could surely apply to pilots...possibly a pointless discussion but surely valid?

Has a point Roy, as unlikely as it may be. Remember Silk 737 and Egypt 767. Also the unsuccessful Fedex DC-10 attempt. We don't know with certainty what made some of them do what they did but it's only a small step for those inclined to make randomairs proposition a reality.

[Airbubba]

If the powers in charge judge on religion, or proven stats then those guilty in the past are labeled accordingly.

Before it was the young uneducated people that was blamed for this.

Now everyone is under suspicion, Doctors! This is such a shame on there profession.

That's a good observation. In the politically correct media religion of the perps is barely mentioned and the 'diversity' of the 'militants' is reported, for example:

They had diverse backgrounds, coming from countries around the globe, but all shared youth and worked in medicine. They also had a common goal, authorities suspect: to bring havoc and death to the heart of Britain.

The eight people held Tuesday in the failed car bombing plot include one doctor from Iraq and two from India. There is a physician from Lebanon and a Jordanian doctor and his medical assistant wife. Another doctor and a medical student are thought to be from the Middle East.

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/176717.html

India has suffered from attacks, including aircraft hijackings, by 'radical Islamic militants' for decades. It is ironic that the Glasgow terrorists are branded as 'Indian Doctors' in current media reports. Most Indian doctors are not Muslim so this attempt to group them with radical terrorist wackos is most unfair.

[Desertia]

Silk 737

Was this the Silk 737 that cost that FCU manufacturer all that money?

[Rockhound]

B Abraham,
Where did you get the idea that the Silk Air pilot was a member of an extremist group?
Rockhound

[CaptKremin]

If you know a pilot who sympathises with the insurgents in Iraq, and is against the Iraq war - would you worry? Would you report him to the security authorities?

Where does it end?

[HowlingWind]

Where did you get the idea that the Silk Air pilot was a member of an extremist group?

Mr. Rockhound, where did you get the idea Mr. Abraham was alleging such? I believe he is simply saying that if some pilots are capable of such acts on their own behalf one would truly have to have their heads in the sand (or elsewhere) to insist some couldn't somehow be coerced, persuaded, or otherwise influenced to do evil bidding on behalf of others. Is that really so hard to accept?

[Brian Abraham]

Thanks Howling. Thats the trouble with communication, sometimes it isn't. He wrote, but he read etc.

[lamina]

'It seems to me that if these people can get jobs as doctors, how difficult would it be for them to be employed as airline pilots and do the unthinkable?'
Exactly So do you think preventing crew taking 105ml of toothpaste, nail clippers etc. on board is going to stop an incident?
There we go again, full circle, whats the point in subjecting crew too over the top security (far worse than pax). Answers to Transec please!

[Ron & Edna Johns]

What exactly is it about aircraft/airports/aircrew that sends the powers-that-be into a spin? Based on what I've observed going on in the UK during the last week, the following measures should be implemented:

(a) no vehicles should be permitted to be parked outside any nightclubs, or indeed outside any other soft targets in the London CBD;

(b) extend (a) above to every other city in the UK;

(c) all doctors (no matter of UK or foreign origin) should submit to security searches of their vehicles prior to taking control of such vehicles;

(d) all doctors should be required to wear the equivalent of a aviation security pass when behind the wheel of their vehicle;

(e) all vehicles entering the London CBD should be security checked for explosives;

(f) extend (e) above to every other city in the UK.

Instead, what do we do? We just move vehicle access a milli-poofteenth back from one of thousands of soft targets (airport terminals). Ain't gonna fix the fundamental problem. Next time the "doctors" are just going to drive the Landrovers into a school yard, or a night club, or a hospital lobby.....

Can't ANYONE in power see the folly in all these "security" measures? Of course (a) to (f) are nonsensical, and that is precisely my point - you will never deal with this problem by acting reactively after each latest event.

[Andu]

I have to agree with Ron and Edna's comments - but sadly, I suspect their irony will lost on many outside the aviation industry. (For instance, I'd love to see your average Harley Street specialist being made to remove his shoes out on the street outside his rooms every time goes to work!)

On another point,the following comment should send shivers down the spines of many who who can't go for nine hours plus without a biological break and who fly for airlines from a part of the world that Political Correctness forbids me to name.

If you know a pilot who sympathises with the insurgents in Iraq, and is against the Iraq war - would you worry?

I regularly fly with many such pilots - frequently might be a better word - and even before this latest development, it's occurred to on more than one occasion when I've been waiting for the little red light to change to green and it's taken a little longer than usual to do so whether it is in fact going to change to green and i'm going to be left standing outside the cockpit door (for what might turn out to be the rest of my life).

The current 'impregnable cockpit' security setup is a double-edged sword with potentially tragic consequences when the solitary person sometimes behind that 'impregnable' door is a young man of deeply-held political or -dare I say it? - rel*g*ous convictions.

The EgyptAir 990 crash occurred in 1999, two years before the events of September 11th 2001 sent the security system into its current tail chasing madness, and the main defence of the Egyptians to 'prove' the FO did not purpously cause the crash was that people of that religion Political Correctness forbids us from naming don't commit suicide as it is against the teachings of their holy book.

Most would agree that events on and since September 11th 2001 would seem to have put a hole the size of a 767 fueslage in that argument, yet no one in authority seems to have looked back on that accident with the benefit of post 9/11 hindsight and asked the question "Was he got at in some way by somone who convinced him, for whatever reasons, to tke the actions he took that day?"

[Airbubba]

If you know a pilot who sympathises with the insurgents in Iraq, and is against the Iraq war - would you worry?

No, I fly with Democrats all the time.

Most would agree that events on and since September 11th 2001 would seem to have put a hole the size of a 767 fueslage in that argument, yet no one in authority seems to have looked back on that accident with the benefit of post 9/11 hindsight and asked the question "Was he got at in some way by somone who convinced him, for whatever reasons, to tke the actions he took that day?"

This question was raised here immediately after 9-11 but the thread was quickly moved then closed, perhaps due to the political sensitivity of the subject:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36001

Some of the early speculation on a terrorist cause of the SU990 crash involved a mysterious unscheduled stop at "Edwards Air Force Base" breathlessly reported first by CNN correspondent Ben Wedeman. It turns out the plane made a fuel stop at EWR, Newark, New Jersey.

There is also the report that a couple of dozen senior military officers were onboard returning from briefings and training in the U.S. This would be nothing unusual for an Allied flag carrier from my experience.

Gamal El-Batouti had been caught more than once exposing himself to girls and women at the layover hotel in Manhattan, one of the incidents is detailed on page five of this FBI report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/ea990/docket/Ex_14A_add3.pdf

He was within four months of retiring as an FO and perhaps flying home to a hearing that would cause him to lose his pension. This strikes me as very similar to Auburn Calloway at FedEx, he had a hearing scheduled where he could lose his job for falsifying his employment history.

Of course, at the time, El-Batouti was portrayed as a great family man, e.g.:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...id=chix-sphere

And, we were reminded that Muslims did not commit suicide.

[brain fade]

I almost quail at posting this thought, but surely, if men who are intelligent enough to become doctors have been planted as 'sleepers', which could well be the case here, then there could be similar 'sleepers' already within our own profession.

Now, the aggrieved doctors may not be sleepers. They may simply be people who are highly pissed off at the 'situation' in Iraq and elsewhere and who decided to 'do something'. I know not. But if AQ has managed to plant people, who are now in post and just waiting for the phone to ring.....pity help us.

[Danny]

This thread is going to bed now. Far too many posters with high testosterone levels trying to start a 'Hamster Wheel' topic with their inbred xenophobia and tabloid understanding of world politics.

The incident is over. If you still feel the urge to discuss the why, how and when of radical Islam then go find a more suitable bulletin board.