BWA Go Bust
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Very sad news, worked alongside BWA crews and ground staff in Aberdeen for the last 2 years with the Scatsta operation, they are all a great bunch and I hope things are sorted out for them very soon. regards to all.
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My sincerest best wishes go to all of you.
Having just been laid off myself by air 2000 I know how you feel.
I was in IPA office yesterday, the redundancy packs were being prepared and sent out to the BWA members you should receive them soon.
Airline contacts and fact files are available on the website www.ipapilot.com
Having just been laid off myself by air 2000 I know how you feel.
I was in IPA office yesterday, the redundancy packs were being prepared and sent out to the BWA members you should receive them soon.
Airline contacts and fact files are available on the website www.ipapilot.com
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Dear BWA,
On behalf of two cabin crew trainers who have worked for the comapny for more than years than we care to remember (actually we do care to remember)we have had such a good time and worked with so many fabulous people ground and aircrew, we are so sad, gutted infact we dont't know what to do without you BWA, however we wish everyone the very best of luck in the future, and a very merry christmas to you all.
Best wishes to all
a special note
TO BRITISH WORLD AIRLINES - GOODNIGHT AND GODBLESS.
ALL OUR LOVE ALWAYS
KRIS THRELFALL
CLAIRE NICKELS
[*]null
On behalf of two cabin crew trainers who have worked for the comapny for more than years than we care to remember (actually we do care to remember)we have had such a good time and worked with so many fabulous people ground and aircrew, we are so sad, gutted infact we dont't know what to do without you BWA, however we wish everyone the very best of luck in the future, and a very merry christmas to you all.
Best wishes to all
a special note
TO BRITISH WORLD AIRLINES - GOODNIGHT AND GODBLESS.
ALL OUR LOVE ALWAYS
KRIS THRELFALL
CLAIRE NICKELS
[*]null
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Dear All
You must make of this what you will, I’m afraid:
I do not suggest for a moment that anything untoward or illegal has been done here. However, my heart truly goes out to all the loyal and dedicated employees who have given so much to BWA. I suspect you deserve much better than you have received.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: CrashDive ]
You must make of this what you will, I’m afraid:
I do not suggest for a moment that anything untoward or illegal has been done here. However, my heart truly goes out to all the loyal and dedicated employees who have given so much to BWA. I suspect you deserve much better than you have received.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: CrashDive ]
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Five hours ago, I got the phone call from Southend. Having flown as cabin crew for BritWorld for just eight months, I already feel that I've lost a friend. We were a small, close family at Gatwick, highlighted at our end of season **** up just a few weeks ago where flight deck, cabin, and ground crew chatted, danced, and drank together as equals. I always felt that we woked together as a team, doing whatever it took to get the flights away and our customers happy. Talking to other crew today, there is a palpable sense of having lost something special.
To all the cabin crew I flew with, professional to the end, thanks for making flying such fun. To the flight deck, you've made our job so enjoyable, never too busy to explain how those shiny machines worked, and passing on your enthusiasm for flying. To Jim and Helen on the ground, coping with frequent delays and tech problems with humour and efficiency, thank you. To all those in Southend that found us interesting work, and who worked their behinds off to keep us going, thanks
To all of those who have posted messages of support, again thank you. Let's hope this is the last loss of jobs (however optomistic that may be). Let's hope the light at the end of the tunnel will soon be visible.
To all the cabin crew I flew with, professional to the end, thanks for making flying such fun. To the flight deck, you've made our job so enjoyable, never too busy to explain how those shiny machines worked, and passing on your enthusiasm for flying. To Jim and Helen on the ground, coping with frequent delays and tech problems with humour and efficiency, thank you. To all those in Southend that found us interesting work, and who worked their behinds off to keep us going, thanks
To all of those who have posted messages of support, again thank you. Let's hope this is the last loss of jobs (however optomistic that may be). Let's hope the light at the end of the tunnel will soon be visible.
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Flightrider
Tsk, tsk. I did not say that I am "adamant" that nothing untoward or illegal has occurred, merely that "I do not suggest" same.
As for what has happened, as I have already said above, you must make of the facts what you will.
Tsk, tsk. I did not say that I am "adamant" that nothing untoward or illegal has occurred, merely that "I do not suggest" same.
As for what has happened, as I have already said above, you must make of the facts what you will.
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I would say that this is looking like a rather planned failure - especially as the process of applying for an AOC and Operating Licence is one that takes anything up to a year.
Getting a company up and running with 5 x 737s by next spring is not something that happens overnight - and is certainly not something that could happen if the process was only started yesterday.
Some interesting legal aspects arise - and perhaps Holt CJ could advise on them: if it were known by directors of a company that their existing company was insolvent or about to become insolvent, and they were involved in a new company which was being in effect set up to continue the existing business without its liabilities, then (a) where would that leave them vis-a-vis the creditors (including employees) of the existing company - who must surely be in a weakened position; and (b) if business that should have gone to the existing company is, in fact, being channelled to the new company - is this legal?
Finally, should persons involved in such activities be allowed to act as CAA Postholders?
Getting a company up and running with 5 x 737s by next spring is not something that happens overnight - and is certainly not something that could happen if the process was only started yesterday.
Some interesting legal aspects arise - and perhaps Holt CJ could advise on them: if it were known by directors of a company that their existing company was insolvent or about to become insolvent, and they were involved in a new company which was being in effect set up to continue the existing business without its liabilities, then (a) where would that leave them vis-a-vis the creditors (including employees) of the existing company - who must surely be in a weakened position; and (b) if business that should have gone to the existing company is, in fact, being channelled to the new company - is this legal?
Finally, should persons involved in such activities be allowed to act as CAA Postholders?
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Ah, my old friend,The Guvnor. Welcome to the fray. 
You have placed your querying digit upon precisely the same points that I ponder myself.
Rest assured that I have on my rather thick spectacles and am delving into the relevant tomes as we speak. When I have arrived at an appropriately considered position, I will come back to you.
Meanwhile, I would enjoy hearing your own view on the questions you have put?
You have placed your querying digit upon precisely the same points that I ponder myself.
Rest assured that I have on my rather thick spectacles and am delving into the relevant tomes as we speak. When I have arrived at an appropriately considered position, I will come back to you.
Meanwhile, I would enjoy hearing your own view on the questions you have put?
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Good God, Moses (or is that Good Moses, God?), a little over the top don't you think? And possibly actionable. Wash your mouth out with soap!
Dick I Natwat, I am still wiping the tears from my eyes. Are you Antipodean by any chance?
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: Holt CJ ]
Dick I Natwat, I am still wiping the tears from my eyes. Are you Antipodean by any chance?
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: Holt CJ ]
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HoltCJ - as a layman, I'd suspect that if it was done to avoid liabilities one could be looking at criminal charges including fraud and/or conversion. The Companies Act 1985 (as amended) also has a few things to say on the subject.
It would also be interesting to see why the auditors resigned - especially as the company is a plc. Were they unable to certify it as a going concern? If so, that lays the directors open to charges of reckless trading, which of course has unlimited personal liability attached.
The CAA's Economic Regulation Group would generally look with great disfavour on persons knowingly involved with a manipulated financial collapse of a British airline - especially when it comes to the issue of an Operating Licence for any successor carrier.
Does anyone know yet whether the company has gone into Administration or Receivership? How much is the total known indebtedness? Who pulled the plug - the Board, or an action by a creditor?
Another question - it will be recalled from one of the many BWA/NJI threads that the person behind NJI claimed that he had bought into and/or was 'taking over' BWA. Is it perhaps the case that instead of BWA, he's actually involved with the new company? Who are the directors listed at Companies House?
For those interested in a definition of the legal term conversion:
In other words, if a contract should have accrued to a company but was diverted to another, then as I understand it, this would be conversion?
Moses Mashombe (aka Freeboot, Freenum, Napoleon, ZambAero etc etc) - you wouldn't know a genuine AOC or OL if it hit you on the head, so stay out of this, please.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]
It would also be interesting to see why the auditors resigned - especially as the company is a plc. Were they unable to certify it as a going concern? If so, that lays the directors open to charges of reckless trading, which of course has unlimited personal liability attached.
The CAA's Economic Regulation Group would generally look with great disfavour on persons knowingly involved with a manipulated financial collapse of a British airline - especially when it comes to the issue of an Operating Licence for any successor carrier.
Does anyone know yet whether the company has gone into Administration or Receivership? How much is the total known indebtedness? Who pulled the plug - the Board, or an action by a creditor?
Another question - it will be recalled from one of the many BWA/NJI threads that the person behind NJI claimed that he had bought into and/or was 'taking over' BWA. Is it perhaps the case that instead of BWA, he's actually involved with the new company? Who are the directors listed at Companies House?
For those interested in a definition of the legal term conversion:
From, 89 CJS -Trover and Conversion- Sec. 1 Conversion:
"Conversion is an unauthorized assumption and exercise of the right of ownership over goods or personal chattels [property]
belonging to another, to the alteration of their condition or the exclusion of an owner's rights...Any distinct act of
dominion wrongfully exerted over one's property, in denial of his right, or inconsistent with it."
The definition in Black's Law Dictionary, Electronic Edition, is identical to that above with the addition of this sentence:
"Any unauthorized act which deprives an owner of his property permanently or for an indefinite time."
Black's also defines "Fraudulent conversion":
"Receiving into possession money or property of another and fraudulently withholding, converting, or applying the same to or
for one's own use and benefit, or to use and benefit of any person other than the one to whom the money or property belongs."
"Conversion is an unauthorized assumption and exercise of the right of ownership over goods or personal chattels [property]
belonging to another, to the alteration of their condition or the exclusion of an owner's rights...Any distinct act of
dominion wrongfully exerted over one's property, in denial of his right, or inconsistent with it."
The definition in Black's Law Dictionary, Electronic Edition, is identical to that above with the addition of this sentence:
"Any unauthorized act which deprives an owner of his property permanently or for an indefinite time."
Black's also defines "Fraudulent conversion":
"Receiving into possession money or property of another and fraudulently withholding, converting, or applying the same to or
for one's own use and benefit, or to use and benefit of any person other than the one to whom the money or property belongs."
Moses Mashombe (aka Freeboot, Freenum, Napoleon, ZambAero etc etc) - you wouldn't know a genuine AOC or OL if it hit you on the head, so stay out of this, please.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]
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It is a great shame this industry!
To see so many suffer, is so sad!
I wish you all the best from my heart, ive flown for you amd even trained some of you!
Good luck for the future! Im certain it will be brighter
Rivet
To see so many suffer, is so sad!
I wish you all the best from my heart, ive flown for you amd even trained some of you!
Good luck for the future! Im certain it will be brighter
Rivet
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Guv, what are you on about when you say, aka Freeboot, Freenum, Napoleon, ZambAero, are these some of your unfortunate previous business partners too ?!
So you can trust me, and where have I heard that before Neil ?, I'm not one of them !
So you can trust me, and where have I heard that before Neil ?, I'm not one of them !
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The Guvnor
I am inclined along the same path. I confess to having in the past avoided this area of the law through disinterest. It is becoming a little more interesting at present.
By the way, who is this semi-literate who seeks self-annihilation in a defamation suit? Presumably not a friend of yours?
Edited for gobbledygook. That's it. I'm off to bed for now. I will tune in again tomorrow for the next exciting episode. Goodnight ladies and gentlemen ... oh, and Moses.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: Holt CJ ]
I am inclined along the same path. I confess to having in the past avoided this area of the law through disinterest. It is becoming a little more interesting at present.
By the way, who is this semi-literate who seeks self-annihilation in a defamation suit? Presumably not a friend of yours?
Edited for gobbledygook. That's it. I'm off to bed for now. I will tune in again tomorrow for the next exciting episode. Goodnight ladies and gentlemen ... oh, and Moses.
[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: Holt CJ ]
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I believe BWA officially went into receivership this afternoon after a very long board meeting. Wouldn't like to even guess as to the total indebtedness. As for 'who pulled the plug' I'm not sure but there are quite a few people out there well and truly 'sunk' at the moment.