NJI is reborn
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Hamrah,
Wouldn't have been far far easier if BWA had of employed the existing 146 crews and for BWA for have bought/leased some 146s. Afterall, we are all on BWA's programming board in Southend, we are all on your AOC, why I even have some nice BWA ops volumes, part 1 and 2 which I am considering using for the fire place. Surely cranking up the PMO/CTA ops using the pilots already living and established in PMO and CTA, and current on the 146 was the way to go.
Cheers
Jumbo 'unemployed BWA operator' lino
Wouldn't have been far far easier if BWA had of employed the existing 146 crews and for BWA for have bought/leased some 146s. Afterall, we are all on BWA's programming board in Southend, we are all on your AOC, why I even have some nice BWA ops volumes, part 1 and 2 which I am considering using for the fire place. Surely cranking up the PMO/CTA ops using the pilots already living and established in PMO and CTA, and current on the 146 was the way to go.
Cheers
Jumbo 'unemployed BWA operator' lino
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Thing is J, any idiot knows that you can't run a 'low-cost' operation on 146's and make money - which is why they nearly all use B737's, e.g. SouthWest 358, RyanAir 31, EasyJet 26, GoFly 19 - with an exception being Jet Blue who use 83 Airbus-A320's - and even Buzz would prefer to solely use B737's. You see my point ?!
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Err, actually BWA have dropped the 146 from their AOC - reason being that you have to specify specific registration / airframe numbers for them to be on there, and as BWA no longer have control over those previously nominated aircraft, they've been taken off the AOC.
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DA,
Just to be a 'Devil's Advocate' - Just because a lot of other low cost airlines use 737s doesn't mean that that is the only aircraft type that would work. Whilst I know the shortcomings of the 146, the fact is that we were kicking ass on the PMO,FCO and CTA routes. Our load factors were incredibly high, and we were making moola. I am proposing that to kick off a new low cost airline, you would be better to stick with the current crews and with the 146 because until you reestablish the load factors, it will cost less to run 146s instead of 737s.
I Did not know that the 146s had been dropped from the BWA AOC, I didn't know that that was the case, for eg, I know of an airline that had 737s got rid of them for 146s yet still had the 737s on their AOC, years after they had dropped the 737s.
Just to be a 'Devil's Advocate' - Just because a lot of other low cost airlines use 737s doesn't mean that that is the only aircraft type that would work. Whilst I know the shortcomings of the 146, the fact is that we were kicking ass on the PMO,FCO and CTA routes. Our load factors were incredibly high, and we were making moola. I am proposing that to kick off a new low cost airline, you would be better to stick with the current crews and with the 146 because until you reestablish the load factors, it will cost less to run 146s instead of 737s.
I Did not know that the 146s had been dropped from the BWA AOC, I didn't know that that was the case, for eg, I know of an airline that had 737s got rid of them for 146s yet still had the 737s on their AOC, years after they had dropped the 737s.
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Any truth behind the rumour that come 'summer' when BWA have more work for their own aircraft they will attempt to replace the 737's with 146's - that is if they get them back on the AOC and if the routes are still being flown then. Is it true that some of their 'safe' summer work isn't quite so safe anymore - ie. 737's stay in Italy long term??? 
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OK Mr Hahmrah
I quote you :
" Just to clarify. BWA is supplying aircraft and Crew to an Italian Operation. Only BWA crews are involved. We have not contacted any ex NJI crew. The Italian company who are leasing our aircraft, may be using some ex NJI employees. That is none of our concern. We expect to be paid by the Italian company on an ACMI basis. We have no involvement in ticket sales or collecting money from passengers "
Seems that's going to be another really confused business, like the NJI Mk1, and in case of a failure after some months money will be everywhere, except in the pockets of the crew who did honestly their business up to the last day, and who were dismissed without formulation by their management who simpled boarded the life boats during the night and let the staff on the drifting ship.
That's what everybody is laughing about in the whole italian industry, except of course NJI former employees who told me the story.
But they didn't have connections with unions, so after all they deserved it, didn't they ?
Chi sai?
A good advice for your operation, which in any case I wish for you to be successful because there would be no point about the contrary : don't arrive in this country with the pretention of teaching the locals how to fly and operate an airline
I quote you :
" Just to clarify. BWA is supplying aircraft and Crew to an Italian Operation. Only BWA crews are involved. We have not contacted any ex NJI crew. The Italian company who are leasing our aircraft, may be using some ex NJI employees. That is none of our concern. We expect to be paid by the Italian company on an ACMI basis. We have no involvement in ticket sales or collecting money from passengers "
Seems that's going to be another really confused business, like the NJI Mk1, and in case of a failure after some months money will be everywhere, except in the pockets of the crew who did honestly their business up to the last day, and who were dismissed without formulation by their management who simpled boarded the life boats during the night and let the staff on the drifting ship.
That's what everybody is laughing about in the whole italian industry, except of course NJI former employees who told me the story.
But they didn't have connections with unions, so after all they deserved it, didn't they ?
Chi sai?
A good advice for your operation, which in any case I wish for you to be successful because there would be no point about the contrary : don't arrive in this country with the pretention of teaching the locals how to fly and operate an airline
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I can confirm the fact that former NJI cabin crew have been contacted and ALSO former 737 pilots...100%sure.
As per kicking ass on the PMO-FCO-CTA runs i would like to remind you that when NJI started (from Sicily) they showed up as a BA operation in the eyes of the unwary customer, the good loads were achieved mostly because of this and not because of the 146's nor any other reason; but now that BA pulled the plug it will take much longer and be more costly to build up a new name.
One last spontaneous question: if these guys were not paying NJI staff why should they pay BWA's?
As per kicking ass on the PMO-FCO-CTA runs i would like to remind you that when NJI started (from Sicily) they showed up as a BA operation in the eyes of the unwary customer, the good loads were achieved mostly because of this and not because of the 146's nor any other reason; but now that BA pulled the plug it will take much longer and be more costly to build up a new name.
One last spontaneous question: if these guys were not paying NJI staff why should they pay BWA's?
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tf perhaps in answer to your question: It's not so much a case of 'these guys' not paying NJI, it was more a case of NJI not paying anybody - or that when they (NJI) did they certainly didn't settle in full, and / or that one had to go through all sorts of machinations (read, 'threats') to get what was owing (or even part of it).
Bottom line I suppose is that, certainly in these hard times, we've got to chase any business that's going, but having been once bitten, we're now twice shy; and accordingly are trying very hard to limit the liability of any such event happening again, e.g. a lot of that risk exposure has been taken care of contractually and up-front.
Bottom line I suppose is that, certainly in these hard times, we've got to chase any business that's going, but having been once bitten, we're now twice shy; and accordingly are trying very hard to limit the liability of any such event happening again, e.g. a lot of that risk exposure has been taken care of contractually and up-front.
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Fair play to BWA on this and to the backers. In this climate any further attempts to open new / re-open old routes that look like they have a chance of working should be encouraged.
I feel sorry for the NJI pilots but it is important to remember that a lot of them only went down there because they were paying so much money in the first place (leaving more secure jobs to do it.) You take the risk, you have to accept the bad side as a cosequence.
For a fact I can tell you that the salaries were unsustainable for a regional operator irrespective of what was painted on the tail.
As far as keeping them on and the 146's it could work if the financial structure was right. Low cost and less than 120 seats is possible but not practical. The older 73's are the way to go. The A320 is also not overly suitable (trust jetBlue to prove me wrong!!) as the leasing costs are in the region of 3 times that of a 146, they're very specialised and whilst not MX heavy they are difficult to find engineering support and long-term crews for especially if you dion't want to pay all the initial training costs..... which low-cost operators don't.
You made your choice (newly trained F.O's excluded)and made way more money in the last year than any of us settled Pilots. Lick your wounds and move on. I sincerely hope that things all work out for you.
I feel sorry for the NJI pilots but it is important to remember that a lot of them only went down there because they were paying so much money in the first place (leaving more secure jobs to do it.) You take the risk, you have to accept the bad side as a cosequence.
For a fact I can tell you that the salaries were unsustainable for a regional operator irrespective of what was painted on the tail.
As far as keeping them on and the 146's it could work if the financial structure was right. Low cost and less than 120 seats is possible but not practical. The older 73's are the way to go. The A320 is also not overly suitable (trust jetBlue to prove me wrong!!) as the leasing costs are in the region of 3 times that of a 146, they're very specialised and whilst not MX heavy they are difficult to find engineering support and long-term crews for especially if you dion't want to pay all the initial training costs..... which low-cost operators don't.
You made your choice (newly trained F.O's excluded)and made way more money in the last year than any of us settled Pilots. Lick your wounds and move on. I sincerely hope that things all work out for you.
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MARGARET, HELLO,
Of course we made a choice to work for a company that paid well. DUHHHH. So that is a crime in your eyes is it?
The problems I am having is that
a. We are owed money for work we did,
b. It was not our wage structure that brought down the airline
c. We were all trained and a part of the BWA system. Dammit you people have my training file.
So while I welcome newcomers to try and make a go of it, eg AirOne and Volare etc, it is a different story with BWA.
BWA is picking at staff left displaced from NJI. They want to use our FAs, but no, don't use our pilots.
So I'll go back and 'lick my wounds' as you say and you can come on down to Sicily and throw some salt into them.
Of course we made a choice to work for a company that paid well. DUHHHH. So that is a crime in your eyes is it?
The problems I am having is that
a. We are owed money for work we did,
b. It was not our wage structure that brought down the airline
c. We were all trained and a part of the BWA system. Dammit you people have my training file.
So while I welcome newcomers to try and make a go of it, eg AirOne and Volare etc, it is a different story with BWA.
BWA is picking at staff left displaced from NJI. They want to use our FAs, but no, don't use our pilots.
So I'll go back and 'lick my wounds' as you say and you can come on down to Sicily and throw some salt into them.
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So JumbOlino,
The company you signed the contract with is in Sicily or in U.K. or where?Me thinks you should throw salt where it should be throwed.By the way do you know what the "permesso di soggiorno" is?
The company you signed the contract with is in Sicily or in U.K. or where?Me thinks you should throw salt where it should be throwed.By the way do you know what the "permesso di soggiorno" is?
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It was getting a couple of 737's that helped send NJI down - not to mention paying BWA loads of cash to use theirs for a while. Now more than ever it would be very economical to use the 146 - I bet they are going very cheap (apparently available now for about half the price of before.)
Surely it's got more to do with the fact that BWA have some of their fleet sitting idle over the winter and they would very much like to utilise them as best they can.... Can't say that I blame them personally.
Also - how many NJI pilots left more secure jobs? I don't think it was that many - Malmo Aviation was a big supplier when they kicked out a lot of their pilots. As Maggy concedes that there were a lot who took the job regardless of the pay.
Still, you might want to learn from our 'mistakes' - as Jumbolino says there are many people owed un sacco di soldi.
Surely it's got more to do with the fact that BWA have some of their fleet sitting idle over the winter and they would very much like to utilise them as best they can.... Can't say that I blame them personally.
Also - how many NJI pilots left more secure jobs? I don't think it was that many - Malmo Aviation was a big supplier when they kicked out a lot of their pilots. As Maggy concedes that there were a lot who took the job regardless of the pay.
Still, you might want to learn from our 'mistakes' - as Jumbolino says there are many people owed un sacco di soldi.
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Geeny,
Lo so il permesso di soggiorno bene, infatto ho un passaporto italiano. Perche' vorresti sapere questo. Non cambia niente, ho perso il mio lavoro qui. Non e' giusto che non sono stato pagato per il mio lavoro.
Lo so il permesso di soggiorno bene, infatto ho un passaporto italiano. Perche' vorresti sapere questo. Non cambia niente, ho perso il mio lavoro qui. Non e' giusto che non sono stato pagato per il mio lavoro.