Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Cruise/Augment Pilots

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Cruise/Augment Pilots

Old 7th May 2007, 14:40
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Found in Toronto
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cruise/Augment Pilots

I found this recently online:


The Civil Aviation Department of Maldives feels very firmly that:

- The concept and practice of restricted type ratings compromises flight safety.

- The practice of using holders of restricted type ratings as so-called “cruise” pilots is both unsatisfactory and potential threat to flight Safety.

All International operators into Maldivian airspace will be required on those flights where a supplementary crew member is fully type rated and qualified to act as pilot-in-command.


Anyone know which airlines operate with Cruise/Augment Pilots that are not fully qualified on type? (Air Canada and Cathay Pacific are two)

Are there any countries besides Maldives that do not allow such crews to operate in their airspace?
Lost in Saigon is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 14:58
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 724
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
KLM also has cruise relief pilots.
fox niner is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 15:20
  #3 (permalink)  

aka Capt PPRuNe
 
Join Date: May 1995
Location: UK
Posts: 4,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cruise/Augment Pilots that are not fully qualified on type
fox niner, are the KLM cruise/relief pilots fully rated on the type or do they hold a restricted rating?
Danny is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 15:32
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EU
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It is a restricted type rating. Only above 20,000 feet in normal flight conditions. In non-normal conditions (like a decompression) the seat change can occur after stabilizing at an appropriate altitude. Their position is certainly not under review or reconsideration at KLM. The system works fine as is. I certainly don't have an issue with them. The vast majority are smart as a whip, and function very well. The FO's need to hold a B1 (or ATPL) if they are flying with a SO (second officer). The FO acts as pilot in command, and their type rating reflects this. This is all logged during the flight, and this form is part of the ship documents.
Otterman is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 16:38
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Most airlines do not recognize flight instructing nor cruise officer time when looking at total times.
captjns is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 17:10
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SAA used to use cruise pilots with ratings only valid above FL200 and as far as I know they still do. Never heard of any problems with it.
tired is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 21:41
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Qantas utilises Second Officers (Cruise Officers) that are not fully qualified on type, nor fully paid either!
Condition lever is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 21:56
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: No problem.
Age: 59
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Eva Air, too. Cruise F/O as well as Cruise Capt.
Tofu Racing is offline  
Old 7th May 2007, 23:05
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: EDDF
Age: 52
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
almost every major airline uses this type of crewcomplement if it flies legs where 3 CMs are required. it just costs too much money to fly with 2 CPTs. so whats the big deal?
saludos
L
warmkiter is offline  
Old 8th May 2007, 00:07
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Found in Toronto
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I understand that an airline may use one Captain, and two First Officers. But true "Cruise" pilots have not been trained to land the aircraft.

Are Eva cruise Captains and cruise FO's trained and tested in landings?

I ask this because Maldives will not let an operator fly through its airspace unless there is a FULLY qualified crew member at the controls. I wonder if there are any other countries that have this stance.

REPORT ON THE STUDY ON THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR CRUISE RELIEF PILOTS:

http://www.icao.int/ICDB/HTML/Englis...WP.7669.EN.HTM

There is lots of information here but it is not so easy to disseminate which countries allow what in their airspace.
Lost in Saigon is offline  
Old 8th May 2007, 00:35
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,787
Received 7 Likes on 3 Posts
Cathay has cruise pilots. Their designation is P2X and time is logged as such, the HK log book having a P2X column. In addition, while the Captain is taking rest, the operating pilot must be qualified as a cruise commader.

BA and Virgin don't use cruise pilots. BA actually fly with 2 Captains, Virgin use cruise commanders.
Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 9th May 2007, 05:46
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Blighty
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The last few years on the Classics in SAA second oficers/cruise pilots were used as Flight Engineers...
springbok449 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.