kenya airlines 737-800 missing
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Value Jet, was that the one with the O2 generators catching fire?
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Quote:
NAIROBI, May 7 - A member of the Kenyan delegation which visited the crash site of Kenya Airways flight 507 on Sunday night described the scene as horrifying and dashed any hopes of survivors.
He said the fuselage was submerged in a swamp, while pieces of the aircraft were strewn across a large area. He also said they could see a crater where the plane appears to have hit the ground on impact.
The sign of a crater seems to indicate severe impact.What do you think?
NAIROBI, May 7 - A member of the Kenyan delegation which visited the crash site of Kenya Airways flight 507 on Sunday night described the scene as horrifying and dashed any hopes of survivors.
He said the fuselage was submerged in a swamp, while pieces of the aircraft were strewn across a large area. He also said they could see a crater where the plane appears to have hit the ground on impact.
The sign of a crater seems to indicate severe impact.What do you think?
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ValueJet
That's right. The O2 was not meant to be on the plane. It caught fire. However, with the Valuejet I beleive that the pilots were able to transmit a mayday. Still, I understand it all happened v. quickly.
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with the Valuejet I beleive that the pilots were able to transmit a mayday. Still, I understand it all happened v. quickly.
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As per AP:
Flight 507 had departed from Douala airport early Saturday, an hour late because of rain, with 105 passengers and nine crew members on board. The plane issued a distress call, but then lost contact with the radio tower between 11 and 13 minutes after takeoff, officials said.
No survivors, confirmed by Luc Ndjodo, a local government official.
All family members of those who were on board have my heartfelt sympathy for that tragic loss, whatever happened must have happened very fast, no matter was it wx or technical issue.
Flight 507 had departed from Douala airport early Saturday, an hour late because of rain, with 105 passengers and nine crew members on board. The plane issued a distress call, but then lost contact with the radio tower between 11 and 13 minutes after takeoff, officials said.
No survivors, confirmed by Luc Ndjodo, a local government official.
All family members of those who were on board have my heartfelt sympathy for that tragic loss, whatever happened must have happened very fast, no matter was it wx or technical issue.
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The last radio call from the flight was reported as immediately after takeoff. The distress call 11-13 minutes after takeoff must have been the ELT, not a radio call. The news never gets it right the first couple of days.
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OK, it's been found now, but for future ref, let us recall that the ELTs on airliners are only activated by contact with water (hence their correct name: Underwater Locator Beacons). This one may have been activated by the swamp water, if it ever was.
Yes, remarkable similarities to the Abidjan crash, but still probably unrelated. As I recall it, that plane had dinged its AOA vane in collision with a ground vehicle, giving a false stall warning on TO which had the crew fly it into the water (very dark night).
For those who hate speculation, remember that barely any African countries ever publish the full accident investigation reports, including the KQ at Abidjan. Unless there was a total power loss at the beginning of the Douala accident chain, it is the CVR-DFDR read-outs that will probably give the answers. That should take a week or so after the boxes are recovered and delivered to the NTSB.
Yes, remarkable similarities to the Abidjan crash, but still probably unrelated. As I recall it, that plane had dinged its AOA vane in collision with a ground vehicle, giving a false stall warning on TO which had the crew fly it into the water (very dark night).
For those who hate speculation, remember that barely any African countries ever publish the full accident investigation reports, including the KQ at Abidjan. Unless there was a total power loss at the beginning of the Douala accident chain, it is the CVR-DFDR read-outs that will probably give the answers. That should take a week or so after the boxes are recovered and delivered to the NTSB.
Warning Toxic!
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Look everyone, stop this daft (and voluminous) speculation! You're running through everything that could possibly bring a plane down.....on absolutely no information. Thius is a professional pilots forum. It's been made plain that visitors are welcome if input is relevant, but this is a complete takeover by excitable and uninformed amateurs! We are all waiting for news, but running through this ridiculous speculation:
Helios (that takes the biscuit)
O2 Generators
Fuel contamination
Weather...turbulence....lightning
Bombs smuggled aboard
Have we been through hijack as well?
Any other suggestions?
Please give it a rest if you know nothing. idle speculation achieves nothing, ESPECIALLY FROM PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! We have 7 pages of drivel that could be condensed to one page of news. I have never seen a thread get hijacked by so many people with nothing constructive to say.
Helios (that takes the biscuit)
O2 Generators
Fuel contamination
Weather...turbulence....lightning
Bombs smuggled aboard
Have we been through hijack as well?
Any other suggestions?
Please give it a rest if you know nothing. idle speculation achieves nothing, ESPECIALLY FROM PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! We have 7 pages of drivel that could be condensed to one page of news. I have never seen a thread get hijacked by so many people with nothing constructive to say.
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Last call on departure... no more R/T (known!) exchanges until the crash... no apparent good reason to make a good plane crash other than wx...
“massive lightning strike” blew all lights, radios and EFIS out and the crew was trying to come back to land in total darkness, no radio or Nav and IMC?
blame fuel or fuel system contamination (ice).
bad fuel quality in Kabul, Afghanistan in recent years, which have not led to the crash.
Not to speculate at all but out of Douala the groound crews there would always try to sneak things on to the plane.
Helldog - Are you thinking Valuejet here?
contaminated fuel (airliner), on takeoff roll, just breaking ground after Vr, both engines quit. runway remaining was adequate for a quick landing. It could happen,
but I don't think that is the case here.
bomb in the cockpit, killing the pilots could account for a lack of further radio calls
O2 generators catching fire?
Yes, remarkable similarities to the Abidjan crash, but still probably unrelated.
It's beggining to look like the Helios tragedy regarding loss of comm
no apparent good reason to make a good plane crash other than wx...
It's disrespectful, very harmful (think of all those salivating journalists reading it as quoting "industry sources"), and this thread should close, or be confined to people who actually know how to differentiate fact from fiction.
Last edited by old,not bold; 7th May 2007 at 14:37. Reason: typo
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Hmm... I'm sorry if my daft suggestions have cause any offence; Besides I've never realised that I was posting on the actual official accident investigators forum, where you get the news fact in one post and than complete silence until the 2nd post comes up with the link to the official report...in 3 or 4 years time. So, close this thread now and reopen it when the report comes out. Pro pilot or not, you're not a part of the investigation team, and that includes you too Rainboe.
Btw, thanks for the biscuit. It sure is appreciated.
GD&L end of tx.
Btw, thanks for the biscuit. It sure is appreciated.
GD&L end of tx.
Warning Toxic!
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It's distressing, isn't it- complete hijack of the bulletin board. So much garbage now it is 7 pages of unreadable nonsense, everybody contributing any idle thought they may have. I like the snake one. Hadn't thought of the propane gas bottle one. All done on no data whatsoever.
Shall we wait for hard news, and the CVR and Data recorders to be recovered?
GD&L- I repeat, this is a forum intended mainly for Professional Pilots. It's been made clear that contributions are welcome if people have some sensible input that "Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots" may affect our jobs. This thread is complete hijack of the bulletin board by people idly speculating on no information. 7 pages of drivel.
Shall we wait for hard news, and the CVR and Data recorders to be recovered?
GD&L- I repeat, this is a forum intended mainly for Professional Pilots. It's been made clear that contributions are welcome if people have some sensible input that "Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots" may affect our jobs. This thread is complete hijack of the bulletin board by people idly speculating on no information. 7 pages of drivel.
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OK, it's been found now, but for future ref, let us recall that the ELTs on airliners are only activated by contact with water
, Oh really, not on our aircraft, I think you are speaking about the one you carry with you after ditching, the one installed in the aircraft will activate on sudden impact.
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Rainboe... you are flogging a dead horse with our argument. I prefer to refer all the 'speculators' who have no actual basis for their 'speculations' to visit this thread: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274296
After reading the first post, please feel free to come back and reconsider whatever it was you were going to post here. If you feel that your informed 'speculation' is really something that we airline pilots should be rewarded with then go ahead. However please do not come back on here with disappointed posts when you get flamed for what the majority of the rest of us consider to be uninformed waffle and amateur drivel.
I note that quite a few of the 'uninformed speculators' also happen to be some of the first to jump on the "let's slag the media" bandwagon when they come up with something that hasn't quite been researched as thoroughly as they think it should have been.
I do note that some of the replies are really cringeworthy and do the poster no favours. So, once again, please read the following post before jumping in with an opinion that could be likely to cause embarrassment: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274296
After reading the first post, please feel free to come back and reconsider whatever it was you were going to post here. If you feel that your informed 'speculation' is really something that we airline pilots should be rewarded with then go ahead. However please do not come back on here with disappointed posts when you get flamed for what the majority of the rest of us consider to be uninformed waffle and amateur drivel.
I note that quite a few of the 'uninformed speculators' also happen to be some of the first to jump on the "let's slag the media" bandwagon when they come up with something that hasn't quite been researched as thoroughly as they think it should have been.
I do note that some of the replies are really cringeworthy and do the poster no favours. So, once again, please read the following post before jumping in with an opinion that could be likely to cause embarrassment: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274296
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Are you sure, DL?
I was only talking about the ICAO legal definition of how the black boxes must be designed for airliners. Only Underwater Locator Beacons are mentioned on the NTSB page about the black boxes and they are most definitely activated by water.
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CVR_FDR.htm
The logic behind this is that if it hasn't sunk, you won't need an ELT to find it.
You didn't say what you fly, and maybe you have a g-force activated one too, but I suspect that's a rarity.
I was only talking about the ICAO legal definition of how the black boxes must be designed for airliners. Only Underwater Locator Beacons are mentioned on the NTSB page about the black boxes and they are most definitely activated by water.
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CVR_FDR.htm
The logic behind this is that if it hasn't sunk, you won't need an ELT to find it.
You didn't say what you fly, and maybe you have a g-force activated one too, but I suspect that's a rarity.
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Would an observation from an eyewitness of the crash site help??
It appears to be high-speed, nose down (almost vertical) impact. Parts of the aircraft buried in the mangroves and hardly recognizable.
It appears to be high-speed, nose down (almost vertical) impact. Parts of the aircraft buried in the mangroves and hardly recognizable.