RoyHudd

Got some beauties for testing up-coming. I wonder what form of tests these "experts" will employ...chromatography, spectrophotometry, or maybe litmus paper, sniffing, and taste-testing! I can hardly wait! Will they be testing our shoes somewhat more rigorously too, I wonder? Chemicals abound in explosive footwear and socks.

Incidentally, while having my lethal shoes x-rayed before flight yesterday, skipper too, I wondered if the hapless security people understand what havoc could be wreaked by misuse of the pilot's feet, shoes on or not? Can quickly snap off an A300 fin, or simply cause cessation of stabilised flight with a judicious shove of a foot whilst airborne.

DFT are a waste of taxpayer's money, as are their consultants and most of the sad security staff working in this new industry.

Captain Airclues

Is it possible that we are playing into the hands of the terrorists? Could the liquids found in the woods and the plan to smuggle them onto an aircraft be a hoax which was deliberately leaked in Pakistan? A few months later some plastic explosive (which is much more deadly) is taken onto an aircraft while the securuty staff are paranoid about liquids.

Airclues

BTDT

If you're having to remove shoes, then get them to untie the laces, "sorry but I have a small back pain, unable to untie my laces" all with a smile of course. When done get them to tie the laces backup again.

Chilli Monster

The DfT / TRANSEC have such a grip on our personal freedom whilst making themselves look good you think they're going to relinquish that?

We've now had this for 9 months. You have people having to go and work in safety critical positions, on night shifts, without being able to get a drink while they're working (At least during the day you can buy drinks airside - albeit at exhorbitant airside prices).

Is this acceptable in the 21st century? NO!

It's time ALL the unions and professional associations got together and sorted this once and for all. Rather than working individually and achieving nothing maybe we should be putting the various representatives together to make a concerted effort. Maybe the threat of action, with the relevant chaos it would cause for one day to the economony, might jolt them into common sense.

As someone who's held higher security clearances than the vast majority of the contracted Security personnel, and still does, being treated like a criminal everytime I go to work is now wearing a little thin

YesTAM

Errrr, the problem is real and I believe the explosive they are looking for is nitroglycerine, as used in the Bojinka plot. I watched a documentary on TV on this last year and saw the (ghastly) devastating effect on the Japanese passenger who was unfortunate to occupy the seat above the bomb, which was assembled in the cabin out of plastic bottle of liquid explosive, detonator and an electronic watch. The only reason the plane didnt go down was because the bomber didn't use enough explosive.

I don't believe there is a simple solution to this threat nor are the authorities overreacting.

wiccan

I remember, [several years ago] when ATC had FULL access to the "security" cameras. We used to "Dolly Watch" non PC I know, but it was FUN.....
However, the Overall impression of so called "security".... was less than "Laughable" but slightly above "Pathetic"
Sorry to say, it has NOT changed
bb

Chilli Monster

So - I can't take a drink in, making me less likely to be a terrorist, but as soon as I plug in at work I could put two aircraft together over a densely populated City and kill thousands.

And you reckon they're not overreacting? BO**OCKS!

Application of security has to be coupled with common sense - which this isn't.

Chuffer Chadley

YesTAM

With respect, the following solutions strike me as simple:

1) Allow only small amounts of liquid- eg 100ml at a time.
2) Don't allow any detonators in hand-luggage.

There are probably more that I haven't thought of.

CC

Gravox

It sounds like you guys in the UK have it rather bad.
In NZ the Aviation Security staff have to now be screened like any other crew or passenger. It was a small win for us.

Is the airline industry well unionised in the UK. Couldn't you use these security procedures as a barginning device with your airlines for meals to be provided? or atleast drinks.

The Aviation security here also enjoy having there power trip over crew and passengers alike. They seem to be the same the world over, thinking that they are personnally saving the world.

Best of luck! Sounds like you need something to change.

F4F

Still don't see the point of security checking us flight crew... we don't need any weapon as we can be the weapon
Just shove the stick forward or point it someplace could do much more damage than smuggling whatever kind of detonating device, so, what is the point?

Crew harassement, what a malign pleasure that must be

Tigs2

Why can't all the pprune members on these forums, email their respective union reps, and ask their non-prune mates to do the same with an ultimatum that unless the Authorities get a grip on the situation then all members want a strike on say 'August bank holiday' for three days. That would get the right people talking. Unless the collective decide to do something, the people involved in security (particularly the very high paid bo***x consultants) will continue to create an empire.

I don't like much about what goes on in Isreal, but what i DO like is that they don't have this s***e, according to a mate of mine there last week, they PROFILE passengers, and don't give a s**t if people think it is racist. They say it is not, it is focusing on known profiles of types of person that have been historically involved in terrorist acts/hijackings etc. And you know what it works!

This is so so crazy. They have won already.

Cliqclack

I've just realised that when I go to work my bladder contains liquid. Back off home for a p*ss

Fly Ginger

time to identify yourself. do you know something everyone else on this forum doesn't.................

jdaley

Whenever this or equivalent topics come up flight crew seem to disengage brain and drop into "we don't need any weapon as we can be the weapon" mode.

Good for you - most people know that - really.

Is it possible to state that the bod passing through security in uniform with airline id isn't someone who has 'converted' or simply someone whose uniform/creds have been 'borrowed' when resting?

(The imposter/convert doesn't have to be part of the target flight crew s/he simply has to meet an accomplice passenger after getting the 'easy' route through security.)

Bring on cavity search for flight crew?

Two's in

Before we all dive in, I agree that current security is simply designed to pander to the Government cretins and to "be seen to be doing something".

That said, in addition to somebody using stolen of false credentials to get airside, the use of proxy bombs or weapons being carried by individuals under duress (eg by threats to family members) is a well established and preferred terrorist technique for violating secure cordons. However unlikely, it is a threat and 100% screening is the only effective counter measure.

beerdrinker

This 100ml containers in a sealable transparent 1 litre plastic bag nonsense is now an "ICAO Recommedation" and is being picked up at airports world wide. OZ, Singapore and other places out east have just adopted it.
The good times have gone and the lunatics are running the asylum.

Solar

Blue up
I thought of that during an extremely long delay in Manchester shortly after the latest foiled attempt. I happened to mention to the chap in the extremely long queue behind me that if the terrorists had any sense they would put the bomb at the security desk as they wouldn't have to go through security and on that day the impact would certainly have been more devastating numerically wise than your average flight. He seemed somewhat alarmed but that may have had something to do with my N I accent.

Solar

I regularly travel through Belfast city and recently the security chap wiped my laptop with the the little paper disk that they then feed into the scanner to detect any explosive content. I made him aware that I regularly indulge in pistol shooting and that the dark stain on my forefinger was actually gunpowder residue from the day before (yes I had tried to wash it) and he said that the scanner would pick it up, nary a bleep from it. That really builds confidence.

Ron & Edna Johns

Well, I see that up there in the UK they have just admitted that the Tube/Bus bombers were briefly under surveillance with these other fellows that have just been convicted. And that these Tube/Bus bombers were not considered a threat......! And now there have been admissions from the security agencies - the "experts" - that they will never be able to keep everyone under surveillance because THEY DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT RESOURCES.....

Well...... if they had spent a little LESS time worrying about pilots removing their shoes, pulling crews' laptops out, jackets off, hats off, etc... generally harassing crews who are trying to just do their jobs, and spent a little MORE time focusing on REAL potential threats, then perhaps those guys could have been stopped. If they spend a little LESS time running around confiscating airline Captains' toothpaste and lunches and a little MORE time thoroughly examining higher risk subjects then maybe the next attack will be prevented.

Devote the resources and efforts to where the biggest threats are. Don't sweat the low risk stuff. Redeploy the man-hours you are wasting examining the Captain's can of Coke to where they will be actually worthwhile!

It is no surprise at all to hear people up there saying it's a matter of time before the next strike gets through. And it's all fundamentally because you (the UK) are not focusing your resources and efforts appropriately! You are focusing on the easy targets - the general traveling public and the operating crews. It is time to focus on the real worries (specific race/religious/cultural profiles) and aggressively deal with them!

But any chance of that happening in Britain?

Somehow, I very much doubt it........

Mick Stability

For goodness sake give them a break. Can you imagine how many pilots they have to check for toothpaste?

It's hardly surprising that the odd Islamic Terrorist slips under the radar. We have to concentrate on the major security threats to the UK.