Olympic Pax Lives Up to His Name in Security Breach
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Olympic Pax Lives Up to His Name in Security Breach
Can't blame the crew for being a little proactive in light of recent events.
Some folks just don't get the word...
___________________________________________
. .February 11, 2002
Flight Arrest Under Olympic Rules. .By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS. . . . . .Filed at 2:14 p.m. ET
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- An airline passenger who allegedly got up to go the bathroom less than 30 minutes before landing became the first person arrested under a new federal flight regulation adopted for the Olympics.
Richard Bizarro, 59, could get up to 20 years in prison on charges of interfering with a flight crew.
Bizarro was on a Delta flight from Los Angeles on Saturday when he allegedly left his seat 25 minutes before landing, despite two warnings from the captain to the 90 passengers to stay put as required under the 30-minute rule adopted for Salt Lake City by the Federal Aviation Administration.
Because of the incident, air marshals aboard the plane ordered all passengers to put their hands on their heads for the rest of the flight.
Bizarro was jailed overnight and released on his own recognizance
Authorities said a flight attendant instructed Bizarro to return to his seat immediately after he left the bathroom. She said Bizarro, who is 6-foot-2 and 220 pounds, ignored her orders and stared at her for about a minute before returning to his seat, according to the FBI.
The incident was seen by two of three undercover air marshals on board, the FBI said. One of the agents said he saw Bizarro give what appeared to be a "thumbs up'' to another passenger as he returned to his seat, prompting the marshals to take control of the cabin.
The Salt Lake City rule requiring no passenger movement during the last 30 minutes went into effect Feb. 5. It already had been in effect for flights to Reagan International Airport in Washington.
Some folks just don't get the word...
___________________________________________
. .February 11, 2002
Flight Arrest Under Olympic Rules. .By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS. . . . . .Filed at 2:14 p.m. ET
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- An airline passenger who allegedly got up to go the bathroom less than 30 minutes before landing became the first person arrested under a new federal flight regulation adopted for the Olympics.
Richard Bizarro, 59, could get up to 20 years in prison on charges of interfering with a flight crew.
Bizarro was on a Delta flight from Los Angeles on Saturday when he allegedly left his seat 25 minutes before landing, despite two warnings from the captain to the 90 passengers to stay put as required under the 30-minute rule adopted for Salt Lake City by the Federal Aviation Administration.
Because of the incident, air marshals aboard the plane ordered all passengers to put their hands on their heads for the rest of the flight.
Bizarro was jailed overnight and released on his own recognizance
Authorities said a flight attendant instructed Bizarro to return to his seat immediately after he left the bathroom. She said Bizarro, who is 6-foot-2 and 220 pounds, ignored her orders and stared at her for about a minute before returning to his seat, according to the FBI.
The incident was seen by two of three undercover air marshals on board, the FBI said. One of the agents said he saw Bizarro give what appeared to be a "thumbs up'' to another passenger as he returned to his seat, prompting the marshals to take control of the cabin.
The Salt Lake City rule requiring no passenger movement during the last 30 minutes went into effect Feb. 5. It already had been in effect for flights to Reagan International Airport in Washington.
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Blimey... thats a bit harsh <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
Shame on the kids onboard (if there were any).
Which poses an interesting question: What if a kid urgently needed to go? Would the commander have authority to order that the kid gets to go to the lav? Or do you leave it for the cleaners to deal with forty minutes later?
I know which I would prefer...
73driver
Shame on the kids onboard (if there were any).
Which poses an interesting question: What if a kid urgently needed to go? Would the commander have authority to order that the kid gets to go to the lav? Or do you leave it for the cleaners to deal with forty minutes later?
I know which I would prefer...
73driver
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I think the terrorists have truly won…
While no one will question the fact he did disobey the flight crew, seemingly out of spite impart to his actions of staring at the F/A for about a minute before returning to his seat.
What I find most troubling is the fact the Air Marshals waited for him to return to his seat before acting and then they treated all about to a thirty minute ride with their hands over their heads.
If this is what we can expect of these Air Marshals then I ask what good are they?
Shouldn’t these people spring into action immediately and take the person into custody?
I spent nearly five years with Atlanta PD as a patrol officer assigned to the Southside metro and I can speak from experience we never waited till after the fact to react. When we positively ID’ed the perpetrator we pounced on his/her a$$!!!
And with three Marshals aboard, this take down should have been no problem…
But alas our government at work here…
Can’t profile, can’t deport illegal’s, can’t offend anyone but they’ll sure as hell treat me and you, the law abiding citizen as guilty until proven innocent…
TP
Oh and another thing I find disturbing.
As a former Police Officer I still maintain my certification through yearly inservice training to have a fallback incase I do lose my day job.
I cannot carry a weapon aboard the plane I am crewing, even though I am authorized to carry a weapon concealed by the State of Georgia pursuant to the Peace Officers Standards and Traning Act.
But yet I can be blasted out of the sky, if my comm fails and I screw up the published NORDO procedures for cornfield international trying to land. And I can be arrested and jailed for 20 years if I take a pee break at the wrong time...
. . <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
While no one will question the fact he did disobey the flight crew, seemingly out of spite impart to his actions of staring at the F/A for about a minute before returning to his seat.
What I find most troubling is the fact the Air Marshals waited for him to return to his seat before acting and then they treated all about to a thirty minute ride with their hands over their heads.
If this is what we can expect of these Air Marshals then I ask what good are they?
Shouldn’t these people spring into action immediately and take the person into custody?
I spent nearly five years with Atlanta PD as a patrol officer assigned to the Southside metro and I can speak from experience we never waited till after the fact to react. When we positively ID’ed the perpetrator we pounced on his/her a$$!!!
And with three Marshals aboard, this take down should have been no problem…
But alas our government at work here…
Can’t profile, can’t deport illegal’s, can’t offend anyone but they’ll sure as hell treat me and you, the law abiding citizen as guilty until proven innocent…
TP
Oh and another thing I find disturbing.
As a former Police Officer I still maintain my certification through yearly inservice training to have a fallback incase I do lose my day job.
I cannot carry a weapon aboard the plane I am crewing, even though I am authorized to carry a weapon concealed by the State of Georgia pursuant to the Peace Officers Standards and Traning Act.
But yet I can be blasted out of the sky, if my comm fails and I screw up the published NORDO procedures for cornfield international trying to land. And I can be arrested and jailed for 20 years if I take a pee break at the wrong time...
. . <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
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So by this turkey causing trouble, the marshalls sprang into action and identified themselves to everyone else on board. . .Just as well that nobody was trying to 'out'the marshalls in order to subdue them!
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The 'perp' responds.... .<a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020211/110519_1.html" target="_blank">http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020211/110519_1.html</a>
And a survey on the Denver Post as to his fate.... .<a href="http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-122997320020211-150252.html" target="_blank">http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-122997320020211-150252.html</a>. .(vote if you like or just click on 'results')
And a survey on the Denver Post as to his fate.... .<a href="http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-122997320020211-150252.html" target="_blank">http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-122997320020211-150252.html</a>. .(vote if you like or just click on 'results')
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TDK
don't forget ....and the home of the brave! - how true in this case.. .And yet I can’t stop laughing at the yanks -- sorry not really personal, but this is not the first time such a scenario was exercised thru as I recall. The ridicule of the situation, as Toilet Porpoise mentioned, is that it is somewhat self induced wouldn’t you say?
don't forget ....and the home of the brave! - how true in this case.. .And yet I can’t stop laughing at the yanks -- sorry not really personal, but this is not the first time such a scenario was exercised thru as I recall. The ridicule of the situation, as Toilet Porpoise mentioned, is that it is somewhat self induced wouldn’t you say?
I can't say that rules like this give me any confidence that the people supposedly in charge of security know what they're doing. I'm waiting now for a pax to be taken ill, and be denied medical attention by a doctor on the plane becasue of this sort of silly rule. If a death resulted, I'd like to see those responsible sued to hell and back. Even better, the death penalty applied to the bozos!
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One thing just crossed my mind – the guy with the four stripes on the shoulders is still in command of the flight right? What legal authority does a sky marshal have once the doors are closed? I’m unfamiliar with the new procedures in place, can anyone enlighten me?
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I would guess that the marshalls want to keep their cover until the last minute so as to see if there are any accomplices. . .The rule may seem a bit harsh but it's a sign of the times. It is there to prevent shoe bombers etc from getting the privacy they require to light up uninhibited. I'll bet there is also a max pee time the marshalls give pax! . .Common sense would apply to medical emergencies. I would guess that as long as everyone is visible, it would be ok to get up and give assistance.
. .Common sense would apply to medical emergencies. I would guess that as long as everyone is visible, it would be ok to get up and give assistance.
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Next thing we will be seeing is the removal of toilet doors!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> . .Will have to learn to whistle again....... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
e28 driver
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Actually maybe not 'only in America'. There was a situation in the U.K. a couple of years ago, when a member of the public reported to the police that they'd seen a hand gun in the rear footwell of a car parked on a suburban street. An armed response team staked out the street for an hour or so and then ambushed a man as he approached his small hatchback. He had eight loaded weapons trained on him while they ordered him to lie on the road and put his hands behind his head, which were duly handcuffed. The 'gun' turned out to be a childs toy and wasn't even black. The gentleman was released without apology or counselling. Had he twitched at the wrong time there were eight chances he could have been shot by a marksman who probably believed they were looking at an armed felon.
Is it not the case that incidents such as occurred last sept are used to justify measures and authorities, which put officers (of whatever agency) in a position where they are compelled to overreact in the name of security? Whose fault will it be if someone ends up dead and who will care if decent peoples civil liberties are breached, in the name of 'security'??
Answers on the back of a postcard...
[ 12 February 2002: Message edited by: TDK ]</p>
Is it not the case that incidents such as occurred last sept are used to justify measures and authorities, which put officers (of whatever agency) in a position where they are compelled to overreact in the name of security? Whose fault will it be if someone ends up dead and who will care if decent peoples civil liberties are breached, in the name of 'security'??
Answers on the back of a postcard...
[ 12 February 2002: Message edited by: TDK ]</p>
This and many other highlighted incidents is why, after 26 years of annual leisure travel to the USA - sometimes twice or three times per year, I will not be returning there until the authorities get a real grip of themselves.
I understand fully the difficult circumstances the country finds itself in, but I am astounded at the actions of the authorities and individuals. Sadly the country has gone completely mad and is now more akin to the old Soviet type regime than to the free democracy it purports to be. I am frightened of going to the States, not because of potential terrorist activity but because of the unpredictable reactions of individuals in the name of national security. More so by the fact that as an aviation professional I'm more likely to be targeted! I'm not going to risk 20 years in the slammer because I was bursting for a pee just at the "wrong" time!
The American people live in difficult times and I sympathise, but their President and/or their government officials are hiding the real truth from them whilst at the same time bringing the country down on its knees. All these daily crazy over-the-top incidents will not bring valuable tourist $$$ into the country; it's keeping them out! It's destroying America. The authrities blame it on the events of 11 SEP when in reality it comes down to poor leadership and inadequate training.
I do hope the country recovers soon, but until it does, I'll be vacationing in other parts of the world.
I understand fully the difficult circumstances the country finds itself in, but I am astounded at the actions of the authorities and individuals. Sadly the country has gone completely mad and is now more akin to the old Soviet type regime than to the free democracy it purports to be. I am frightened of going to the States, not because of potential terrorist activity but because of the unpredictable reactions of individuals in the name of national security. More so by the fact that as an aviation professional I'm more likely to be targeted! I'm not going to risk 20 years in the slammer because I was bursting for a pee just at the "wrong" time!
The American people live in difficult times and I sympathise, but their President and/or their government officials are hiding the real truth from them whilst at the same time bringing the country down on its knees. All these daily crazy over-the-top incidents will not bring valuable tourist $$$ into the country; it's keeping them out! It's destroying America. The authrities blame it on the events of 11 SEP when in reality it comes down to poor leadership and inadequate training.
I do hope the country recovers soon, but until it does, I'll be vacationing in other parts of the world.
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Not positive where that puts the PIC in this situation. The PIC is "the final authority as to the safe operation of the aircraft" and can break any and all rules so long as he/she is prepared to have a long testy and onesided discussion with the FAA over the air regulations part. The sky marshalls are real no s$#t sworn Federales with powers of arrest and everything that goes with it. Many of them I have worked with a also pilots, by the way, and none are stupid or lacking in common sense.
While it has been mooted that sworn law enforcement officers of all stripes (state, local, federal) could or should be allowed or required to fly while armed there are a number of practical problems with this. Do you knowhow many law enforcement agencies there are inthe US? I don't, but just the states (50) counties (several thousand), townships (?), towns (?), cities (?) plus sheriff's offices (multiply all previous county x 2) and you get the picture. IF an airline captain gets pilloried for not believing and checking up on a U.S. Secret Service agent on El Presidente's detail what will happen if everybody from every Podunk PD wants to "help" by flying with their 9mm?
They do that and I'm taking the bus.
While it has been mooted that sworn law enforcement officers of all stripes (state, local, federal) could or should be allowed or required to fly while armed there are a number of practical problems with this. Do you knowhow many law enforcement agencies there are inthe US? I don't, but just the states (50) counties (several thousand), townships (?), towns (?), cities (?) plus sheriff's offices (multiply all previous county x 2) and you get the picture. IF an airline captain gets pilloried for not believing and checking up on a U.S. Secret Service agent on El Presidente's detail what will happen if everybody from every Podunk PD wants to "help" by flying with their 9mm?
They do that and I'm taking the bus.
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To the rest of the world: Let me apologize for the obvious insanity that has gripped the US, land of the free, home of the paranoid. I have to say that I am truly ashamed of the crew, the airmarshals, and the rest of the the people on this board who have not roundly condemned this thug-like behavior. Shame on us.