Olympic Pax Lives Up to His Name in Security Breach
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I thought that prolonged periods of keeping your arms above your shoulder was considered a form of torture. Thirty minuutes is a prolonged period of time.
If that is so, then, these air marshalls or the US government is prepared to torture innocent passengers; foreign and domestic without just cause.
All because the airlines/government cannot properly screen PAX, onboard luggage and aircraft to ensure that the flight is not compromised.
What happens if one of the PAX has a medical problem which is complicated by these actions?. .Who will accept responsibility for these actions?
There should be some latitude given before such actions are taken. The process needs 'humanising'; when you gotta go, you gotta go!
<img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
If that is so, then, these air marshalls or the US government is prepared to torture innocent passengers; foreign and domestic without just cause.
All because the airlines/government cannot properly screen PAX, onboard luggage and aircraft to ensure that the flight is not compromised.
What happens if one of the PAX has a medical problem which is complicated by these actions?. .Who will accept responsibility for these actions?
There should be some latitude given before such actions are taken. The process needs 'humanising'; when you gotta go, you gotta go!
<img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
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So where is the pragmatic solution? Quite frankly I have to agree with Avman, and it isn’t even the possible bathroom dilemma I might find myself in. -- I can see the immigration officer asking what I want here, answering that I’m flight crew or that I’ll be of to Florida for some leisure flying, winding up in a maximum security prison being some big guy sweetie just because I’m a pilot?. .As of recently I’ll be exploring other parts of the world until the US get a grip on the situation.
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First point. Men who have had prostrate treatment (for example) often can't control their bladder. What gets you into more trouble - going to the toilet or soaking your seat for the next occupant?
Second point. Hands over head is not good for the circulation. Add to that the DVT problem on long flights. If someone pops their clogs from a combination of the two, who picks up the (very expensive) tab - the airline or whoever controls the actions of the Sky Marshals?
Probably both if this is modern America.
Second point. Hands over head is not good for the circulation. Add to that the DVT problem on long flights. If someone pops their clogs from a combination of the two, who picks up the (very expensive) tab - the airline or whoever controls the actions of the Sky Marshals?
Probably both if this is modern America.
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The more I think about this, the more cross I become.
Exclude scenarios where it is self-inflicted (i.e. drinking too much liquid). Take the prostate example I suggested above. If you can demonstrate that you are not a threat and really need a pee, why should they stop you?
If I was in that situation and was forced to wet my seat (and thereby be hugely embarrassed) I would sue them. In America the definition of 'Personal Injury' covers many things, including humiliation. The implications for carriers could be huge.
Exclude scenarios where it is self-inflicted (i.e. drinking too much liquid). Take the prostate example I suggested above. If you can demonstrate that you are not a threat and really need a pee, why should they stop you?
If I was in that situation and was forced to wet my seat (and thereby be hugely embarrassed) I would sue them. In America the definition of 'Personal Injury' covers many things, including humiliation. The implications for carriers could be huge.
Fortunately, I'm not flying to Salt Lake tomorrow. I am going via Chicago to San Diego, though. One of the unfortunate things about diabetes is that you do pee a lot, even when the disease is well controlled. And guess what - I'm diabetic.
And I guess if we had trouble, the work would end up being done outside the US, so reducing a need for employees there....
And I guess if we had trouble, the work would end up being done outside the US, so reducing a need for employees there....
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Oh please, this rule is not that absurd.
If you're diabetic, just make an effort to use the lav say, 35 minutes before landing. Are you telling me that you have a critical need to pee every 45 minutes? I find that hard to believe. If someone has a medical condition that gives them an urgent need to urinate every 45 minutes, they should be accomodated, but they should make prior arrangements with the authorities beforehand. Even my cancerous granny can hold it that long......
Just a shred of planning is all it takes to stay within the law. It's not hard. This rule makes good sense, and I'd be more than willing to waive my right to pee for an hour or so in the name of national security. I would think most people might feel the same? Maybe I just don't consider urinating as sacred a ritual as some....
If you're diabetic, just make an effort to use the lav say, 35 minutes before landing. Are you telling me that you have a critical need to pee every 45 minutes? I find that hard to believe. If someone has a medical condition that gives them an urgent need to urinate every 45 minutes, they should be accomodated, but they should make prior arrangements with the authorities beforehand. Even my cancerous granny can hold it that long......
Just a shred of planning is all it takes to stay within the law. It's not hard. This rule makes good sense, and I'd be more than willing to waive my right to pee for an hour or so in the name of national security. I would think most people might feel the same? Maybe I just don't consider urinating as sacred a ritual as some....
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Alchemy
I see by your profile that you list yourself as a student. That possibility explains your naivety in regards to security matters. Might I suggest that you reread your history books for a finer insight into what's really going on...
I see by your profile that you list yourself as a student. That possibility explains your naivety in regards to security matters. Might I suggest that you reread your history books for a finer insight into what's really going on...
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This is NOT security, it is STUPIDITY!
Our government has gotten completely out of hand. Every time something like this gets reported, more people refuse to fly.
Our government has gotten completely out of hand. Every time something like this gets reported, more people refuse to fly.
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Read my history books.....hmmm yes, I feel so sooo opressed by not taking a **** for 30 min prior to landing. It just isn't that big a deal for the average person, and it's a right I'm willing to waive in order to prevent some saudi with a death wish from plowing the a/c into a stadium full of 25,000 people.
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I. M. Esperto
I'm afraid your right, it is stupidity...The government, in the name of security, is going to continue on this disastrous course until they kill the lifeblood of the global economy, aviation.
I'm afraid your right, it is stupidity...The government, in the name of security, is going to continue on this disastrous course until they kill the lifeblood of the global economy, aviation.
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Which models have a set of flight controls in the head ? And why 30 minutes anyway ?. .Normally the seat belt sign will be called for at least 20 minutes before arrival, earlier if a turbulent descent is anticipated. For sure nobody should be up and about below 10000'. I don't see how this extra inhibition enhances security in any way. Why not get the CC to lock the toilets after the seat belt bell ?
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Solution to the problem!!!!!!!!!
1/ Bring a small coke or water bottle with you on flight.. .2/ If you find you really need to go on the final 30 min pee into bottle(under blanket).. .3/ As you leave the plane hand the bottle to ground staff for disposal!!!
This will soon bring the problem home to the management who will probably have a few of the bottles delivered to their desks first class!!!!!
Won't last long
. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
1/ Bring a small coke or water bottle with you on flight.. .2/ If you find you really need to go on the final 30 min pee into bottle(under blanket).. .3/ As you leave the plane hand the bottle to ground staff for disposal!!!
This will soon bring the problem home to the management who will probably have a few of the bottles delivered to their desks first class!!!!!
Won't last long
. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
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An update on Mr. Bizzaro's predicament:
Suspect Says He Doubted Marshals . . . .BY MICHAEL VIGH. .THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
Richard Bizzaro claims that when three young men in street clothes took control of a commercial airliner bound for Salt Lake City, he believed they were hijackers posing as sky marshals. And he wasn't going to let them get away with it. . . "I believed I was witnessing a hijacking of our airplane," Bizzaro said Monday in his first public statement since he was charged two days earlier with felony interference with a flight crew. . . But when the Park City man's Delta Air Lines flight from Los Angeles touched down Saturday night, he was the one arrested by the same trio of federal agents, who had taken over the flight after Bizzaro improperly left his seat. . . "I believe the situation was aggravated by my and other people's attitudes prompted by the Sept. 11 attacks where we are all fearful of one another," Bizzaro said in a written statement in which he apologized for his actions. . . About 30 minutes before landing, Bizzaro, who happened to have appeared on an in-flight video feature about his business, left his first-class seat and went to the restroom. Under Olympic security rules, passengers on commercial flights into Salt Lake City may not leave their seats during the final half-hour in the air. . . Bizzaro, a frequent traveler, said he had never heard the restriction announced before, and no one stopped him when he stood up. When he exited the restroom, Bizzaro said he was confronted by a flight attendant, whose comments he interpreted as rudeness. . . "I now know she was just doing her job," Bizzaro said. . . Federal prosecutors say he intimidated the attendant with his stares and his size -- 6 feet, 2 inches and 235 pounds. . . After he finally sat down, Bizzaro was seen giving a "thumbs up" to a pair of passengers, an FBI agent alleges. Bizzaro, 59, vehemently denies that allegation and says the three air marshals looked young enough to be his grandchildren and may have had fake badges. One marshal was wearing a baseball cap backward, he added. . . "They did not give the appearance they were law enforcement officers and I did not pay them the proper respect," Bizzaro said. "I overheard conversations between the young men that they were observing something going on at the back of the plane. It did not occur to me that I was seen as the problem until I was informed afterwards." . . The agents said Bizzaro continually looked at the coach cabin, making his behavior appear suspicious. Bizzaro's attorney, Max Wheeler, said his client looked back because "he thought a hijacking was going on in the back of the plane." . . After he demanded a closer look at the badges, he realized they were real and began to comply, Wheeler said. . . Until that time, he said, Bizzaro was thinking he may have to take action against the trio as the passengers appear to have done on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania on Sept. 11. . . U.S. Attorney Paul Warner wasn't sounding mollified on Monday, two days after he charged Bizzaro with a federal crime that could net him up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. . . "This is an important point: We're taking a heightened look at anything that appears to have an impact on the safety and security of the Games," Warner said. . . Bizzaro is CEO of Unicity Network of Orem, a multilevel marketing company with $100 million in annual sales of herbal supplements. The company was featured in an in-flight CNN news segment. . . Bizzaro found it "kind of surreal," Wheeler said. "He was arrested just after seeing his business featured on the flight."
Suspect Says He Doubted Marshals . . . .BY MICHAEL VIGH. .THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
Richard Bizzaro claims that when three young men in street clothes took control of a commercial airliner bound for Salt Lake City, he believed they were hijackers posing as sky marshals. And he wasn't going to let them get away with it. . . "I believed I was witnessing a hijacking of our airplane," Bizzaro said Monday in his first public statement since he was charged two days earlier with felony interference with a flight crew. . . But when the Park City man's Delta Air Lines flight from Los Angeles touched down Saturday night, he was the one arrested by the same trio of federal agents, who had taken over the flight after Bizzaro improperly left his seat. . . "I believe the situation was aggravated by my and other people's attitudes prompted by the Sept. 11 attacks where we are all fearful of one another," Bizzaro said in a written statement in which he apologized for his actions. . . About 30 minutes before landing, Bizzaro, who happened to have appeared on an in-flight video feature about his business, left his first-class seat and went to the restroom. Under Olympic security rules, passengers on commercial flights into Salt Lake City may not leave their seats during the final half-hour in the air. . . Bizzaro, a frequent traveler, said he had never heard the restriction announced before, and no one stopped him when he stood up. When he exited the restroom, Bizzaro said he was confronted by a flight attendant, whose comments he interpreted as rudeness. . . "I now know she was just doing her job," Bizzaro said. . . Federal prosecutors say he intimidated the attendant with his stares and his size -- 6 feet, 2 inches and 235 pounds. . . After he finally sat down, Bizzaro was seen giving a "thumbs up" to a pair of passengers, an FBI agent alleges. Bizzaro, 59, vehemently denies that allegation and says the three air marshals looked young enough to be his grandchildren and may have had fake badges. One marshal was wearing a baseball cap backward, he added. . . "They did not give the appearance they were law enforcement officers and I did not pay them the proper respect," Bizzaro said. "I overheard conversations between the young men that they were observing something going on at the back of the plane. It did not occur to me that I was seen as the problem until I was informed afterwards." . . The agents said Bizzaro continually looked at the coach cabin, making his behavior appear suspicious. Bizzaro's attorney, Max Wheeler, said his client looked back because "he thought a hijacking was going on in the back of the plane." . . After he demanded a closer look at the badges, he realized they were real and began to comply, Wheeler said. . . Until that time, he said, Bizzaro was thinking he may have to take action against the trio as the passengers appear to have done on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania on Sept. 11. . . U.S. Attorney Paul Warner wasn't sounding mollified on Monday, two days after he charged Bizzaro with a federal crime that could net him up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. . . "This is an important point: We're taking a heightened look at anything that appears to have an impact on the safety and security of the Games," Warner said. . . Bizzaro is CEO of Unicity Network of Orem, a multilevel marketing company with $100 million in annual sales of herbal supplements. The company was featured in an in-flight CNN news segment. . . Bizzaro found it "kind of surreal," Wheeler said. "He was arrested just after seeing his business featured on the flight."
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The rule is idiotic, as is much of the heralded new security measures. 20 years in jail for taking a leak? You got to be kidding! Of course the pax should have heard and listened to the announcement but that doesn't make the rule any more stupid! He was acting suspiciously by looking back into the coach cabin - if thats suspicious arrest half of the pax on any given flight. I am afraid not of breaking some insipid airsecurity law but of being confronted for "suspicious" behavior and busting out laughing casuing security to take some "face saving" action