Open skies is a done deal....
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Non-contentious (sp?) from the US side I would guess.
Shall we open a sweepstake on how long it takes bmi to announce a move of the transatlantic services from MAN to LHR? Suggestions stand most chance of success if they are given in minutes rather than days/weeks!!
Shall we open a sweepstake on how long it takes bmi to announce a move of the transatlantic services from MAN to LHR? Suggestions stand most chance of success if they are given in minutes rather than days/weeks!!
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Anyone who thinks this is a 'Done Deal' is fooling themselves. The details of the agreement are not out yet and the UK has clearly stated that if further negotiations with the US did not address its concerns, the deal could be nixed. I am a BA employee and am happy that the industry as a whole is opened up. It will benefit consumers, airlines, industry and the economy as a whole.
For those who want to do business at LHR it is safe to say that the door is open. The question is, where they going to fit?
For those who want to do business at LHR it is safe to say that the door is open. The question is, where they going to fit?
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I believe the majority of BA longhaul flights out of LGW, eg. IAH, DFW, BDA, ATL, etc. Are only operated out of there due to Bermuda 2. So I guess this is good news for BA, as it can now simply ´shuffle´it's lhr slots round to INCREASE it's lucrative LHR-USA traffic.
Whilst the bankrupt US carriers need to fund slots for any new routes.
When will "open skies" be available in the US?
Whilst the bankrupt US carriers need to fund slots for any new routes.
When will "open skies" be available in the US?
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Only my opinion...
I too work for BA, and hope the UK government has not given away the family silver. For years we have been put at a competitive disadvantage by not gaining anti-immunity trust with American (whereas LH/UA and KL/NW have). I hope the American and BA relationship can now be brought to the level of the UA/LH relationship with regard to code sharing across the Atlantic and full reciprocal participation in FFP's.
The first route BA will move will be the IAH to LHR...this is one of the top 10 most profitable for BA, and LGW will not be an option, especially once CO gain entry to LHR. Unfortunately, any route not contributing to the business will be axed from LHR or moved to LGW...can see expansion be shifted away from USA/India as these routes will be more saturated. Leisures routes will move to LGW (NAS, MRU), the moment AA can fly LHR-DFW (and BA can code share on it) LGW-DFW will be dropped. May also be some money to be made in selling slots (I'm sure BMI is rubbing their hands together at the prospect of this).
BA needs to think about new markets where US carriers will be afraid to fly, and markets where LH/KL/AF haven't entered yet...
I hope Virgin America does well, and shows the Yanks how to run a domestic airline, and WHAT customer service is...and that you CAN actually be polite to customers. The potential success of Virgin America and anti-immunity trust for AA/BA are the only advantage for UK carriers.
How does BMI think they can compete in the LHR-JFK market against AA/BA/VS when UA couldn't? BMI are so desperate to fly across the Atlantic...but WHY??
The first route BA will move will be the IAH to LHR...this is one of the top 10 most profitable for BA, and LGW will not be an option, especially once CO gain entry to LHR. Unfortunately, any route not contributing to the business will be axed from LHR or moved to LGW...can see expansion be shifted away from USA/India as these routes will be more saturated. Leisures routes will move to LGW (NAS, MRU), the moment AA can fly LHR-DFW (and BA can code share on it) LGW-DFW will be dropped. May also be some money to be made in selling slots (I'm sure BMI is rubbing their hands together at the prospect of this).
BA needs to think about new markets where US carriers will be afraid to fly, and markets where LH/KL/AF haven't entered yet...
I hope Virgin America does well, and shows the Yanks how to run a domestic airline, and WHAT customer service is...and that you CAN actually be polite to customers. The potential success of Virgin America and anti-immunity trust for AA/BA are the only advantage for UK carriers.
How does BMI think they can compete in the LHR-JFK market against AA/BA/VS when UA couldn't? BMI are so desperate to fly across the Atlantic...but WHY??
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Its good that the market is now opened up but what chance is there of any carriers getting more or new slots into LHR at the moment?
Everyone thinks its great news for BMI but will any new flights from LHR be as successful as there Mumbai service....After all who are BMI to a US citizen or anyone outside of the EU?
Everyone thinks its great news for BMI but will any new flights from LHR be as successful as there Mumbai service....After all who are BMI to a US citizen or anyone outside of the EU?
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BMI's only hope is that their flights will be UA/US/LH/SK code share flights. Markets they could operate would be LHR-DEN to feed UAL hub in DEN. Takeover the LHR-LAX from UA (as this is under scrutiny and not performing to the level UA would hope). UA has frequency on IAD/ORD and SFO and these along with DEN will be their priority come Open Skies to feed their US hubs. LHR can't be that lucrative for UA, as why else would they lease a slot to AC (old LHR-JFK), and have sold slot to BA (the old LHR-EWR in 2003)?
Paxing All Over The World
Muizenberg
I think it's one of those contests about sitting round the big table and seeing who can throw the largest set of keys on the table ... Sir M has certainly built up the airline fantastically well but if he now abandons the regional pax from MAN, just to be able to be at the cess pit of LHR, I don't think that his customers will thank him. Can he fund extra /ac and crews to keep those routes and operate more from LHR?
Without the third runway, there must be the risk of European slots being sacrificed to long haul? That could mean lots of yummy flights but highly limited flying connections into LHR. No good to arrive at LGW/LTN and then have to get across by land for your new flight that now goes from LHR!
However, it looks as if BA had correctly read the runes and their plan to abandon LGW will be seen to have been timely.
It is very amusing to see one part of the EU administration working diligently to have more flights to everywhere, whilst another part of the EU strives to cut back on flights.
BMI are so desperate to fly across the Atlantic...but WHY??
Without the third runway, there must be the risk of European slots being sacrificed to long haul? That could mean lots of yummy flights but highly limited flying connections into LHR. No good to arrive at LGW/LTN and then have to get across by land for your new flight that now goes from LHR!
However, it looks as if BA had correctly read the runes and their plan to abandon LGW will be seen to have been timely.
It is very amusing to see one part of the EU administration working diligently to have more flights to everywhere, whilst another part of the EU strives to cut back on flights.
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Originally Posted by yahoo news
Under the new deal, both British carriers will have to fight to keep their landing and take-off slots against wide-open competition from other European carriers.
Muizenberg:
Your comment about the IAD-LHR is interesting. Orginally (back in the 70s), BA were offered the route but declined it. BCal took it up, along with some others, as part of a new agreement with the US, and operated it very successfully. When BA swallowed up BCal, they were still ambivalent about the service,(which at that time still operated into LGW), but then came the collapse of Communism, and every oilie in Texas wanted to fly to Moscow. The flight was then re-routed via LHR in order to connect with the LHR-SVO flight (as it then was), and the SVO flight moved from T1 to T4 for a better connection. I know this because although I am not in the oil business, I was a frequent traveller on both flights. Given the new agreement and now that the oil rush is now a trickle, they may consider re-routing it through LGW.
The only ones rubbing their hands are the US carriers, and it's not about LHR/LGW. Look further afield. The 27 countries of the EU with a population of +/- 500 million now with unrestricted access, and most with relatives in the US? It must a wet dream for a US carriers' planning department.
This will do more than anything else to rescue the US carriers from Chapter 11, and that's what it's all about. LHR/LGW, are bit players in this agreement.
The UK had its chance (Bermuda 1&2), but the talks went on forever and achieved nothing. We have been forced into this by Brussels, and it's our own fault.
Your comment about the IAD-LHR is interesting. Orginally (back in the 70s), BA were offered the route but declined it. BCal took it up, along with some others, as part of a new agreement with the US, and operated it very successfully. When BA swallowed up BCal, they were still ambivalent about the service,(which at that time still operated into LGW), but then came the collapse of Communism, and every oilie in Texas wanted to fly to Moscow. The flight was then re-routed via LHR in order to connect with the LHR-SVO flight (as it then was), and the SVO flight moved from T1 to T4 for a better connection. I know this because although I am not in the oil business, I was a frequent traveller on both flights. Given the new agreement and now that the oil rush is now a trickle, they may consider re-routing it through LGW.
The only ones rubbing their hands are the US carriers, and it's not about LHR/LGW. Look further afield. The 27 countries of the EU with a population of +/- 500 million now with unrestricted access, and most with relatives in the US? It must a wet dream for a US carriers' planning department.
This will do more than anything else to rescue the US carriers from Chapter 11, and that's what it's all about. LHR/LGW, are bit players in this agreement.
The UK had its chance (Bermuda 1&2), but the talks went on forever and achieved nothing. We have been forced into this by Brussels, and it's our own fault.
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"This will do more than anything else to rescue the US carriers from Chapter 11, and that's what it's all about. LHR/LGW, are bit players in this agreement.
The UK had its chance (Bermuda 1&2), but the talks went on forever and achieved nothing. We have been forced into this by Brussels, and it's our own fault."
The way i see it, once again the USA has got everything it wanted and we got nothing. LHR now opened up to the US bankrupt airlines, being protected and propped up by bankrupcy protection. They even will be allowed to fly within the EU. The UK has had to open up LHR to all and sundry, the only thing we had to negotiate with. We have been sold down the river.
The UK had its chance (Bermuda 1&2), but the talks went on forever and achieved nothing. We have been forced into this by Brussels, and it's our own fault."
The way i see it, once again the USA has got everything it wanted and we got nothing. LHR now opened up to the US bankrupt airlines, being protected and propped up by bankrupcy protection. They even will be allowed to fly within the EU. The UK has had to open up LHR to all and sundry, the only thing we had to negotiate with. We have been sold down the river.
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The UK has had to open up LHR to all and sundry, the only thing we had to negotiate with. We have been sold down the river.
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So, if BA moves its US services to LHR what will become of long haul out of LGW? Does this only mean there will only be short haul, some domestics and some flights to BGI etc? When will be BA clarify what will happen to their LGW operations??
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Great news for passengers..BAD news for BA
open skies takes away BA and Virgin virtual monopoly on LHR/US services.any LHR slot can now be used for transatlantic operation,rather than LHR/DUB or LHR/CDG for example.this opens up tremendous opportunities for non transatlantic airlines to operate new long haul routes to and from LHR.
to hear willie walsh spouting that this is not good for passengers is laughable.not good for BA or willie walsh.maybe time for a quick re-think on his strategy of abandoning many uk domestic and short european services by giving away Bacon to Flybe.all eggs in 1 heathrow basket may have been an option before,it is certainly looking very dodgy long term if this deal goes through as proposed.
to hear willie walsh spouting that this is not good for passengers is laughable.not good for BA or willie walsh.maybe time for a quick re-think on his strategy of abandoning many uk domestic and short european services by giving away Bacon to Flybe.all eggs in 1 heathrow basket may have been an option before,it is certainly looking very dodgy long term if this deal goes through as proposed.
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Yep Aer Lingus has just announced three new routes to Washington Dulles, Orlando and San Francisco. The Orlando route is long overdue.
This will hit Continental, Delta and American Airlines hard!
Good times!!
http://www.rte.ie/business/2007/0322/openskies.html?rss
This will hit Continental, Delta and American Airlines hard!
Good times!!
http://www.rte.ie/business/2007/0322/openskies.html?rss
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the big boys must be relieved ryanair and easy have no LHR slots.nevertheless,I am sure willie walsh is a very worried man.richard branson is already looking at operating across the pond from other european airports such as CDG.this is very bad news indeed for BA.