Qantas flight flies without emergency oxygen
Yeh well it is a RUMOUR network isn't it...
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whose actually jet star???
Jetstar’s Australian operation is wholly owned by Qantas but is managed separately and operates independently. The headquarters are in Melbourne Australia. Jetstar’s intra Asian operation is a Singapore-based partnership between Qantas (49%), local businessmen Tony Chew (22%) and FF Wong (10%) and Temasek Holdings (19%) with the hub based in Singapore.
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Not the first time it happened and it will not be the last time. I caught several planes myself with this mistake (fortunately it never happened to me so far, knocking on wood).
The system is not Murphy-proof. After installation of the new / refilled oxygen cylinder, the valve has to be opened fully and then closed by one quarter-turn, after which it gets lockwired in this position using copper wire.
If the engineer/mechanic gets distracted while doing the installation, he can easily foreget to open the valve completey. Usually by the time he walked up into the flight deck the lines have the full pressure, so he will not notice anything unless he does a oxygen mask test for at least a minute.
Often engineers/mechanics do the job alone and have nobody there to crosscheck.
This is why it is so important for you pilots to do a proper oxygen mask test, watching the gauge for pressure drop.
The system is not Murphy-proof. After installation of the new / refilled oxygen cylinder, the valve has to be opened fully and then closed by one quarter-turn, after which it gets lockwired in this position using copper wire.
If the engineer/mechanic gets distracted while doing the installation, he can easily foreget to open the valve completey. Usually by the time he walked up into the flight deck the lines have the full pressure, so he will not notice anything unless he does a oxygen mask test for at least a minute.
Often engineers/mechanics do the job alone and have nobody there to crosscheck.
This is why it is so important for you pilots to do a proper oxygen mask test, watching the gauge for pressure drop.
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Guess the powers that be have have completed a world-wide check on these oxygen systems by now and can report they found no problems with a lack of oxy for crew should the need arise.??? :
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Rumour is that some airlines will increase checks (two inspections) made on the oxygen systems fitted to their aircraft, both during maint on systems and routine checks, it's nice to get your head out of the sand and be pro-active when maintaining these aircrafts.
:.
Rumour is that some airlines will increase checks (two inspections) made on the oxygen systems fitted to their aircraft, both during maint on systems and routine checks, it's nice to get your head out of the sand and be pro-active when maintaining these aircrafts.
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Most airlines do not allow oxygen servicing on board anymore (apparently some idiot a few years ago used a homemade non-approved adapter and accidentally serviced the oxygen system with nitrogen).
So the only approved method is to physically replace the cylinders (to be refilled using a stationary oxygen rig e.g. in the hangar). For this the cylinder valve will have to be closed. This leads again to the problem of the mechanic/engineer forgetting to open the valve fully after reinstallation.
The only option I see is to make the reinstallation of the oxygen cylinder a duplicate inspection, but there the airlines will cry out about the extra manpower costs at small stations.
So the only approved method is to physically replace the cylinders (to be refilled using a stationary oxygen rig e.g. in the hangar). For this the cylinder valve will have to be closed. This leads again to the problem of the mechanic/engineer forgetting to open the valve fully after reinstallation.
The only option I see is to make the reinstallation of the oxygen cylinder a duplicate inspection, but there the airlines will cry out about the extra manpower costs at small stations.
Last edited by MD11Engineer; 1st Apr 2007 at 19:28.
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oxygen charging
Thats is not quite true most uk airlines carry out oxygen top ups in situ every couple of days which takes out the need to open and close the valve every time.Also with reference to duplicate inspections on oxygen system where I work it is part of the daily check to check the oxygen system and then the pilots come on and do the same check again so a duplicate inspection is a already being carried out.Although it was a maintenance error that caused this problem the pilot obviously did not check the doors page as he would of seen the oxygen contents reading zero so he failed to carry out his checks correctly too.
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Well, the airlines I worked for during the last about ten years didn't and in fact many had the in situ oxygen charging equipment removed per mod. The pilots can not do a visual inspection of the cylinder valve before every flight, especially if the cylinders are sited somewhere behind cargo sidewall panels or in the E/E bay. So it up to us to do a proper check upon installation.
Not all aircraft have the option to check for the valve status like on the Airbus. In most cases it boils down to do an ops check of the masks while watching the gauge for pressure drop.
Not all aircraft have the option to check for the valve status like on the Airbus. In most cases it boils down to do an ops check of the masks while watching the gauge for pressure drop.
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The cone heads at Qantas do the oxy recharging. They use a cart and there is a fill point on the forward panel in the forward cargo door opening and a panel in the forward access hatch on a 767. They still charge from the cart. I think though they are not allowed to recharge the portable oxy bottles. They have to send em U/S and order out full ones. Anyone who takes the time to make up adapters to fit a nitro cart to the oxy system should be sacked on the spot. (and likewise, anyone that spends half a shift making up adapters to fit an oxy cart to charge a landing gear strut should be sacked. But at QF, they send him up to Brisbane from Melbourne)
O2 charging is only permitted if a charging panel is provided.
If not and I believe that Boeing no longer provide this option then a cylinder change is necessary.
I remember hearing that Boeing deleted the option due to a small fire risk during charging. I am happy to be corrected if this is inaccurate.
I have been on the receiving end of a home made O2 adapter stripping its threads in the fwd cargo of a 737-300. Being located with a whipping snake spewing oxygen aint funny.
I have only seen one servicing panel on a UK 737 in the last 5 years and that would be one out of about 70 300/700 series.
So as far as the above problem goes yes it could easily happen and I have caught at least 2 aircraft in the same period with the o2 switched off.
However I have never been called to an aircraft that has been offered to service in this condition.
I tend to agree that the only check that makes sense is for the crew to perform a flow check at the mask till they are sure they have flow.
I wonder if closing the shutoff valve behind the F/Os seat on a 737 bleeding the guage down by using the mask then opening the valve again to watch the guage recover would be a sufficient check? This would also exercise this
little used valve.
To check at the cylinder is impractical due to access issues. The only real way to check it is to close the valve fully the open it all the way then back of a quarter of a turn. I think this would induce as many problems as it fixes.
If not and I believe that Boeing no longer provide this option then a cylinder change is necessary.
I remember hearing that Boeing deleted the option due to a small fire risk during charging. I am happy to be corrected if this is inaccurate.
I have been on the receiving end of a home made O2 adapter stripping its threads in the fwd cargo of a 737-300. Being located with a whipping snake spewing oxygen aint funny.
I have only seen one servicing panel on a UK 737 in the last 5 years and that would be one out of about 70 300/700 series.
So as far as the above problem goes yes it could easily happen and I have caught at least 2 aircraft in the same period with the o2 switched off.
However I have never been called to an aircraft that has been offered to service in this condition.
I tend to agree that the only check that makes sense is for the crew to perform a flow check at the mask till they are sure they have flow.
I wonder if closing the shutoff valve behind the F/Os seat on a 737 bleeding the guage down by using the mask then opening the valve again to watch the guage recover would be a sufficient check? This would also exercise this
little used valve.
To check at the cylinder is impractical due to access issues. The only real way to check it is to close the valve fully the open it all the way then back of a quarter of a turn. I think this would induce as many problems as it fixes.
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Naivete??
Jetstar’s Australian operation is wholly owned by Qantas but is managed separately and operates independently. The headquarters are in Melbourne Australia. Jetstar’s intra Asian operation is a Singapore-based partnership between Qantas (49%), local businessmen Tony Chew (22%) and FF Wong (10%) and Temasek Holdings (19%) with the hub based in Singapore
Quote:
"My Boeing's a 717. Turn oxy bottle off? Oxy in the line is dumped. Line pressure gauge: on zero. Oxy mask check: no noise. Pretty hard to stuff that up.
It intrigues me that Boeing can continue to make real Boeings without such a simple safety feature. "
Could it be that the 717 didn't start off as a Boeing, and this system was inherited from the DC-9?
"My Boeing's a 717. Turn oxy bottle off? Oxy in the line is dumped. Line pressure gauge: on zero. Oxy mask check: no noise. Pretty hard to stuff that up.
It intrigues me that Boeing can continue to make real Boeings without such a simple safety feature. "
Could it be that the 717 didn't start off as a Boeing, and this system was inherited from the DC-9?
