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Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!

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Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!

Old 20th Aug 2001, 02:14
  #61 (permalink)  
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No one would disagree, KC, however a GOOD Management will demonstrate FAIRNESS and CONSISTENCY in their decisions.
The current CX management obviously believe that THEY are "managing" effectively, and as a show of good faith, the Cathay pilots and the rest of us now expect them to deal the same hand they dealt to the 49 pilots whom they summarily dismissed for "lack of confidence".

Captain Fry is a management pilot who has NOT upheld the highest standards expected of someone in that position, and as such it would be expected that current CX management would display the same rationale in their thinking and actions, as was meted out to the 49'ers.
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Old 20th Aug 2001, 12:20
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After much thought, if "Captain Fry" was indeed responsible for the 49'ers fate - he should also be judged in like manner.

Thank you "Kaptin M".

[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: Kunta Crayfish ]
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Old 25th Aug 2001, 13:29
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BTTT!
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Old 25th Aug 2001, 13:43
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I can remember an episode back in 1988 when a Bac 1-11 flew six sectors with the ILS antenna of Lamezia embedded in the fuselage.
This particular aircraft had had three cre changes and two departure checks performed before the problem was spotted, further more all three crews complained of presurrisation problems.

Also note that the antenna when in position on the ground was situated some distance from the runway end about 12 feet above the ground.

If everybody concerned was sacked there would be very little airline industry left in this country.

Comments?
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Old 25th Aug 2001, 14:50
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Surely you get the point? We don't want people sacked for honest mistakes, or even dishonest ones whatever they may be. However, CX does have a procedure for disciplining errant pilots. In early July 49 pilots were dismissed for NO REASON other than the company stated reason that "WE CAN" Are we living in the 21st Century or what?

Last year if I had left a gear pin in I would expect to be counselled, disciplined financially and have a letter placed on my file. If I did the same thing today then Rick Fry (GMF) would, without doubt, have me fired. This post is about double standards, surely this is one helluva example of that.

[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: Dismayed ]
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Old 25th Aug 2001, 20:42
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Can someone at CX repeat what Capt. Fry did please? I'd like to see what they will do to you. If Capt. Fry fires you for that, you can sue them for discrimination.
 
Old 26th Aug 2001, 06:24
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Get real Smith, this is Hong Kong there're talking about.
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Old 26th Aug 2001, 08:22
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Excellent chaps. I see that everybody is getting the point of this thread. Thanks for all your support.
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Old 26th Aug 2001, 08:35
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busdriver: to someone who has been invited to a cx interview...what would your advice be? I have no experience (being in charters) with unions. I have read about the ban. Given that there arent many airline jobs in the US, I would like the chance, but do not want to step on any toes. Can you please help alleviate some confusion? Thanks very much.
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Old 26th Aug 2001, 10:15
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Challenger604driver,

I would recommend that you wait until the dispute is over. Chances are that you will want to take an airline job in the U.S. when one becomes available and it would be a shame if you couldn't get a job in the U.S. in the future due to being blacklisted. The aviation world is small and we have to stick together and support each other. There might be a day when you need world-wide union support for your company. Cathay Pacific is not a great airline to work for under our current unnegotiated contract. You would automatically be on it. Be patient, airlines in the U.S. will start hiring again. All the best to you.
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Old 31st Aug 2001, 04:12
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Capt. Lick Fly has improved his observation skills. He is keenly checking and ridding the airplane of all AOA stickers. Maybe they should put AOA stickers on the gear pins. Glad to see our management have the most important issues under control.
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Old 31st Aug 2001, 13:38
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Challenger604Driver, ignore the clap trap. CX is a great airline and you can take pride in the fact that we are amongst the best.

The conditions, pay and roster are good by all/any standards. Tax rates are amongst the lowest. Try 15% for size and allowances for being married, kids etc. Hong Kong is often hard on some but Wives love the Maid's. The 49 + 3 (Minus 1!)will have to wash the dishes again. Oh Shame, may split your nails Darling.

To live in HK you must like fellow man as there are few places to hide or open spaces but that's not the fault of CX. It's a facinating place and you are right in the centre of the region. Close to everwhere.

Dont worry about the sight of crew walking the streets with their 'poffter' trolley bags. It is like watching sheep or the lemmings. Blind leading the blind.

It is a fact that Hong Kong companies almost without exception have everyone on 90 notice so the clap trap about unfair dismissal and crying pregnant wives is merely adding to the comic opera.

Another fact - Beijing is poised to take control of CX and the Pilots will not know what has hit them. In any good communist society its biggest flaw is that everything gets pulled down the lowest common denominator so conditions will be more in line with other airlines.

Beijing already holds a large chunk of the company and if the pilots play games then China Southern and Air China will start giving HKG - US/Europe traffic rights. Case of having fallen on our swords Guys.

It was never like this but the truth is the Cabin Crew hate the flight deck, the crew Control hate the flight deck and the Public hate the flight deck .... all brought on by the spolit brats who run the Union. God wont he smile.......Looks like you have blown you next job 'Capt I am too tired to fly back from Penang'. Ignore the ban. It is irrelevant, means nothing and offers no sanctuary.

G'Day mate, Come on over, the water is fine.

Boeing Boeing!
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Old 31st Aug 2001, 14:03
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Nasty Nasty where do you get this information? Please provide your credible sources. I doubt you can. As an Aussie or Kiwi, Cathay might sound good. No offense. The upgrade is faster from S.O. to F.O. and you can get a direct entry F.O. position if you take the freighter route. However, challenger604driver, if you can work in the U.S., dont' go to Cathay. Get your experience in the U.S. There is a slow down in the hiring of the majors at the moment, but it will pick up again. Don't burn your bridges for Cathay. If you are Captain on your Challenger, get as much PIC jet time as you can. The SIC heavy time won't be worth as much.


[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
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Old 1st Sep 2001, 06:02
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Nasty Nasty's just anouther mangement w*nker on a pprune recruitment drive!

Still trying to tell the world it's okay to join this cr*p outfit? Still trying to recruit off the pages of pprune? Funny whats become of a company that was once the envy of the industry!

I personally know 3 guys that have turned down their offer of employment. Who in their right mind would step into this mess?

Now sir: GET BACK TO WORK! There must be someone in that stack that'll take your sh*tty offer and not care about the consequences.
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Old 1st Sep 2001, 06:27
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What an excellent comment from INDEEPSHT. You took the word right out of my mouth

[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]

[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
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Old 1st Sep 2001, 10:38
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Nasty Nasty

If I caught my wife loving a maid I would be a bit p*ssed off.

I think that I will have to keep her away from that island!
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Old 1st Sep 2001, 13:47
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Don't know the Captain mentioned here but the "clever" spoonerism of his name leads me to comment on the practice of name calling which seems to be prevalent in dealing with industrial matters. I did consider putting this in the Fragrant forum but it has application in other cases.
When management calls you glorified bus drivers AND YOU RESPOND in kind they have suceeded in diverting you from the task in hand. It is a practice almost universally adopted these days and originated very many decades ago. IGNORE IT! Stick to the facts of your case.
Likewise name calling as in the above posts and others is, quite frankly, childish and plays into the hands of management. It only reduces your credibility as the mature individuals people expect to be in command and operating the airliners they travel in.

'nuff said!
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Old 1st Sep 2001, 19:13
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Well Busdriver25 (Good name - describes the level of sophistication!)... 'Craptain Demerlee' wants to be IFALPA Plesident. Said so at a bar in DB.

'Craptain Demerlee' went sick in PEN at 3am for a 6am pick up. Sat in BCL on the flight he should have flown..... Said he was too stressed worrying about the strike, sorry non-event strike.... you know where to check! Funny how stress only hits when it causes the most disruption.....hope he liked the coffee.

Guys the fact that Larry Yung is poised to do what Richard Li did at HK Telecom. Beijing wants the Brits out and we need to be sorted our first. Fact.

Look at the HK Telecom people made redundant. Not even 30 days notice so 90 is generous. This clause has been there since day one, its just that CX has grown and no one felt threatened. WE have never known cuts in pilots, unlike other carriers heralded as where we will go post CX... dont think so....

CSA & Air China itching to operate ex CLK. Fact. Stated publicly.

Direct Tawian route to mailand will kill our TPE route. Fact. True timing hard to speculate.

Air Canada about to chop crews. European carriers about to do/doing the same. Fact. There are no great jobs to go to post CX. QF/AN wont touch us. Nor will SQ. Try Qatar they plan to grow. No traffic but getting lift - 330/320. No thanks.

Come on smell the coffee. We are on a great breeze and shooting ourselves in the foot. Lets not be lead by the grieving in DB. The 48 are toast - The Union and Management have all agreed on one thing one of the 49 should go! That's a start....

Challenger 604 it is a good airline by any standards. Better than most.

Happy landings....

PS When will 'Craptain Demerlee' smile.....

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Old 2nd Sep 2001, 07:37
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Nasty – a perfect name. Two posts containing some utter cr*p. A few thoughts about your “facts”
Management or not you are certainly out of touch with reality!
The conditions, pay and roster are good by all/any standards.
Which of the 12 different pay scales are you referring to here? How many thousands of roster changes are there each month? Name any other airline that comes even close to the CX world record in this area.
Wives love the Maid's. The 49 + 3 (Minus 1!)will have to wash the dishes again. Oh Shame, may split your nails Darling.
Real nasty piece of work aren’t you?
It is a fact that Hong Kong companies almost without exception have everyone on 90 notice so the clap trap about unfair dismissal and crying pregnant wives is merely adding to the comic opera.
So was it redundancy? If so it should have been in reverse seniority. Did any of them do anything in particular wrong to bring about their dismissal – TT the company mouth has publicly stated no! So it was industrial action by management, name any other company in Hong Kong that has terminated employees in order to intimidate the remainder. Action, which is certainly illegal in most of the developed world and definitely immoral in Hong Kong.
Another fact - Beijing is poised to take control of CX and the Pilots will not know what has hit them. In any good communist society its biggest flaw is that everything gets pulled down the lowest common denominator so conditions will be more in line with other airlines.
Where did you garner this so called “fact”?. So is your argument that the AOA is in league with Beijing to lower the CX share price and thus facilitate a cheaper take over? The share price is certainly getting very low!
Beijing already holds a large chunk of the company and if the pilots play games then China Southern and Air China will start giving HKG - US/Europe traffic rights. Case of having fallen on our swords Guys.
Whose swords are you talking about? I think everybody here realises that CLK slots are going to be given away and that CX will lose out permanently if this dispute drags on. So management put away your swords and get back to the negotiating table before it is too late!
It was never like this but the truth is the Cabin Crew hate the flight deck, the crew Control hate the flight deck and the Public hate the flight deck ....
When did you carry out the survey? Please could you publish the full results in detail? I think you would be very surprised by the amount of support for the pilots from the cabin crew, particularly the more senior ones.
Guys the fact that Larry Yung is poised to do what Richard Li did at HK Telecom. Beijing wants the Brits out and we need to be sorted our first. Fact.
Another “fact”? The truth is that the Brits wanted out of HK Telecom. Cable and Wireless desperately wanted to sell HKT and had already done a deal with Singapore Tel. However, loss of face for HK Govt to have SIN in charge of HKT so PCCW came in with the support of HK Govt in order to save face. And yes-just look at what Richard Li has done for HKT! Share price down to $1.60, a shadow of it’s former self, ask the other investors what they think about that.
Look at the HK Telecom people made redundant. Not even 30 days notice so 90 is generous. This clause has been there since day one, its just that CX has grown and no one felt threatened. WE have never known cuts in pilots, unlike other carriers heralded as where we will go post CX... dont think so....
Yes REDUNDANCY at HKT. Apples with apples etc. please. And redundancy is reverse seniority. It’s in the contract, but you don’t honour those do you?
CSA & Air China itching to operate ex CLK. Fact. Stated publicly.
Another “fact” from this genius! True fact is they already do operate at CLK. Both with their own flight numbers and often with CX ones when you guys decide to ground your own airline to make political points!
Direct Tawian (sic) route to mailand (sic) will kill our TPE route. Fact. True timing hard to speculate.
Not too many analysts agree with you on this “fact”. Most seem to believe that KA will be hardest hit. Of course it will affect CX so all the more reason to get a deal with your pilots so we can all pull together again.
QF/AN wont touch us. Nor will SQ.
How do you know? When did you apply?

Final point. If you are in recruiting, which seems likely given your advice to newbies to "come on over". Is it wise to also suggest redundancies are likely soon? Last in first out is in the contract!

[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: Dismayed ]
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Old 2nd Sep 2001, 08:06
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<Last in first out is the contract>

Didn't seem to help the 49+3 did it?
Looks like this will drag on for sometime, and the pilots are running out of options.
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