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Major Fuel Leak before Take Off at Geneva

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Major Fuel Leak before Take Off at Geneva

Old 5th Nov 2006, 22:07
  #21 (permalink)  
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....most probably the leak would hv stopped after the captain shut down the engine...what he should hv done immediately anyhow.
Shutting down the engine would not stop a fuel tank leak. The engine was more than likely shut down before the spraying of foam commenced.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 22:12
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"the rescue strairs was deployed "

What are rescue stairs?
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 22:14
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My memory is fuzzy but isn't there a fuel tank vent up that way in the wing. I'm sure I've been taxying around in a 320 venting fuel from round about there and we didn't call it a major fuel leak.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 22:33
  #24 (permalink)  
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Like JET A-1, JET A has a fairly high flash point of min. 38° C"
Flashpoint is the temperture of fuel at which it produces fumes that can be ignited by an open flame. Jet A in fact has a flashpoint of 49 oC.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 23:14
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Firstly, well done to the twr, who knows what may have happened if it wasn't spotted.

Fire crew deserve a clap also, stevfire2 described their ROE's and it would seem they carried out their mission. Period.

As for yer man in AMS and his sand... great to get a laugh in R&N

As an aside, looking at the pics it would seem that no1 was actually shut down at the time?
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 23:18
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Originally Posted by mini
Firstly, well done to the twr, who knows what may have happened if it wasn't spotted.
They'd have taken off with fuel venting and at some stage it would have stopped.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 23:36
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Thanks Carnage, quite true.
Fuel tank venting is not rare. The reason the vents are out near the wingtip is so that the occasional incident does not result in a fire.
I admit that this one seems to have been a persistent and high flow affair, and if fuel had somehow managed to run down towards the cowling then a response was indicated, but a slug of foam into the internals of a hot engine creates thermal shock as well as corrosion problems.
The vent orifice is designed to run the fuel clear of wing, etc, so I am curious how fuel got on lower wing/cowling.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 01:28
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Good job by everyone (sand... ), and some great aviation photography on that link!
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 03:05
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It's great to have the fireys get there nice and quick however I am not sure the engine owner will be too impressed with the "foam cool down"

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Old 6th Nov 2006, 04:34
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Rescue stairs

Originally Posted by fmgc
"the rescue strairs was deployed "

What are rescue stairs?
Rescue stairs are purely a red mobile stairways comming to respond with the fire trucks in case of a degradation of the situation.
This is probably the best way to preserve the passenger for a rapid disembarking without the slides.
Unfortunately not mandatory at airport according ICAO
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 05:06
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Great Pictures!

I am wondering, if, letīs say the Wing tanks are full and there is fuel in the center tanks and the center-tank-pumps are switched on while the Mode selector is on manual.....would i have then fuel getting overboard through the spill pipe since the IDG Cooling system is returning fuel from the engines to the outer tanks?

I am new on the Airbus, so just a question!
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 06:52
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If the surge tank overflow sensor becomes 'wet' the FLSCU shuts off the IDG cooling fuel flow return to this tank. That is what is supposed to happen anyway.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 09:14
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You can see how abrasive and corrosive the foam is if you look at the first picture of the cowl and the last picture, see how the paint has been stripped
off. Engine and compressor wash followed by a borescope me thinks.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 09:25
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Was on a triple seven at Houston that had an engine failure (GE90) and the fire crew foamed it. BA said afterwards foaming the engine caused several million dollars worth of damage. I guess it didn't really matter, the engine was trashed anyway.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 09:30
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Originally Posted by flyboy320
Great Pictures!
I am wondering, if, letīs say the Wing tanks are full and there is fuel in the center tanks and the center-tank-pumps are switched on while the Mode selector is on manual.....would i have then fuel getting overboard through the spill pipe since the IDG Cooling system is returning fuel from the engines to the outer tanks?
I am new on the Airbus, so just a question!
Well spotted. This is absolutely correct. Several years ago I managed to do just this while operating the centre tank pumps in manual. We had to start up , taxy out and hold for quite a while and I had left the centre tank pumps on while we waited. By the time it was noticed, we had pumped the best part of 600kg fuel out through the wing tank vent in a very similar manner to the A320 in the picture. We had already moved off and the fire services came out to deal with the spillage. Not my finest hour
This, incidentally, is why the centre tank pumps run for only 2 minutes (I think) after startup before switching off.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 13:32
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Cool

Originally Posted by Antman
You can see how abrasive and corrosive the foam is if you look at the first picture of the cowl and the last picture, see how the paint has been stripped
off. Engine and compressor wash followed by a borescope me thinks.
I would suggest that it is just the foam 'sticking' to the cowl rather than stripping the paint off.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 17:18
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I'm no expert but I would often see fuel streaming out of the outside wing as a jet would swing onto the runway for departure. I took that for, perhaps, a flapper valve stuck open on a vent. I think the 727 would do that fairly often.

This one didn't look, to this casual observer, like something that would have been all that dangerous provided the aircraft kept moving forward.

The regional jet I used to fly had a quirk in that if you fully fueled it and then left it to sit under a hot sun it would begin to vent and then develop a powerful, one-sided syphoning action. I was horrified one day to return and find the aircraft tipped to one side with fuel still streaming out and the cheap Nigerian asphalt under the leaking side reduced to a slush of gravel, bitumen and Jet A. What a mess that was, and mostly down to the fuel system not always working exactly as intended. It surely wasn't designed to do that!

I started out in aviation working with 115/145 Avgas, which is like liquid dynamite, easy to ignite and very powerful. Compared to that I had always thought of Jet A as just another sort of diesel fuel, something fairly innocuous.

Then I went to a grill party where someone used Jet A to get the charcoal in the cut-off 55-gallon drum started. Wow! It lights easily and burns hot and fierce so that I had to revise my notion of just how much respect to give that stuff. It is nothing to trifle with.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 17:21
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Originally Posted by LTNman
How come the cameraman got to the scene faster than the fire service?
There's a favorite photo spot for local spotters right next to the Rwy 5 holding point. So the photographer was probably already there even before the aircraft came.
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 17:46
  #39 (permalink)  
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A320 Nouvelair wath's up (news)

Originally Posted by spannersatcx
I would suggest that it is just the foam 'sticking' to the cowl rather than stripping the paint off.
After reading the diiferent post on the site, some more informations

1. The guys evacuated by the paramedics are disabled passengers (2)
2. The foam sprayed on the engine doesn't create any damage to the engine
3. The foam concentrate was sprayed with a mixture of 6% of foam concentrate and 94 % of water. The a/c was washed with fresh water after they was removd from the holding point.
4. The a/c take off from Geneva 4 hours laters direct to Tunisia without any damage created by the response of the fire crew.
5. The Falshpoint of Jet A1 is +38 Celsius according Total docs
6. All passengers are leaving Geneva the same day with a special flight from Nouvelair (not the same a/c )
7. A X-feed problem is probably the cause of the problem(wait and see)
8. The reason why the firefighters lead of foam blanket under the a/c was simply because the a/c was turning back 360° on the holding point and creating a 360 ° circle of fuel leak around.
9. The fuel qty lost was 850 kg during the incident
10. The right wing (lower part) was contaminated by the fuel and the wind when the a/c was turning back)
11. The engine cowl was also contaminated and the vapour on the picture was created by the fuel.

A lot more info if available tomorrow
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Old 6th Nov 2006, 20:33
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Nice to get on the spot reporting & updates amidst remote conjecture. Nice pics too.
850Kg Jet A1 vented during taxi is cause for concern for all onboard.
Well done TWR
If foam is so corrosive that it strips paint during the incident, do you think H&S would let even a Firey within 100 metres of the stuff, let alone spray it in strong winds or wade through it? What you see is mainly air & water (foam).
Even if spraying down the intake did wreck the engine, still cheaper than total airframe loss by fire on an active taxiway, methinks; not to forget the pax compensation claims!

Well done to all involved
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