Cntinental 757 & Lufthansa 747 scrape wings at EWR
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Cntinental 757 & Lufthansa 747 scrape wings at EWR
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/31/plane.crash/index.html
More at CNN here.
Bad week for Continental
Planes bump at New Jersey airport
POSTED: 9:39 a.m. EST, November 1, 2006
NEWARK, New Jersey (CNN) -- A commercial plane with more than 300 people on board bumped an empty plane Tuesday at Newark Liberty International Airport.
A tip of the wing of Lufthansa Flight 403, headed to Frankfurt, Germany, brushed the right winglet of a second plane, said Lufthansa spokeswoman Jennifer Urbaniak. A wing on the Lufthansa Boeing 747 was damaged, she said.
POSTED: 9:39 a.m. EST, November 1, 2006
NEWARK, New Jersey (CNN) -- A commercial plane with more than 300 people on board bumped an empty plane Tuesday at Newark Liberty International Airport.
A tip of the wing of Lufthansa Flight 403, headed to Frankfurt, Germany, brushed the right winglet of a second plane, said Lufthansa spokeswoman Jennifer Urbaniak. A wing on the Lufthansa Boeing 747 was damaged, she said.
Bad week for Continental
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Correct. Just heard the news on German TV channel. I suspect that the Lufthansa pilot did not follow the taxi line. If he did, this unnecessary incident shouldn't have happened. Well,we have to wait and see what FAA will determine. This will cost Lufthansa a lot of money. The passengers will cash in.
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See the link inside this CNN video for damage. It appears significant damage to the leading edge of the LH 744s left wing.
Note also on this video, there is a graphic approach to RWY 29 that shows the runway and taxiway Z to the RIGHT that the CO 757 landed on the other day.
Last edited by PlatinumFlyer; 1st Nov 2006 at 13:52. Reason: Edited to add link
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Correct. Just heard the news on German TV channel. I suspect that the Lufthansa pilot did not follow the taxi line. If he did, this unnecessary incident shouldn't have happened. Well,we have to wait and see what FAA will determine. This will cost Lufthansa a lot of money. The passengers will cash in.
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How about the facts from the FAA preliminary report? I can't believe how many spotters and C-150 drivers that have become experts on PPrune.
LINK TO ABOVE
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: DHL403 Make/Model: B747 Description: B-747
Date: 10/31/2006 Time: 2330
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Substantial
LOCATION
City: NEWARK State: NJ Country: US
DESCRIPTION
DEUTSCHE LUFTHANSA AIRLINES, DHL403, A BOEING B747 ACFT, WHILE TAXIING FOR
DEPARTURE, LEFT WING CLIPPED THE RIGHT WING TIP OF ANOTHER ACFT, A
CONTINENTAL AIRLINES COA312, A BOEING 757, THAT WAS BEING TOWED. NO
INJURIES WERE REPORTED, THE DHL403 SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE, NEWARK, NJ
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: WIND220 AT 10 VIS10 SCT250 19/M08 A2987
OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Taxi Operation: Air Carrier
Departed: NEWARK, NJ Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: FRANKFORT, GERMANY Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:
FAA FSDO: TETERBORO, NJ (EA25) Entry date: 11/01/2006
Regis#: DHL403 Make/Model: B747 Description: B-747
Date: 10/31/2006 Time: 2330
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Substantial
LOCATION
City: NEWARK State: NJ Country: US
DESCRIPTION
DEUTSCHE LUFTHANSA AIRLINES, DHL403, A BOEING B747 ACFT, WHILE TAXIING FOR
DEPARTURE, LEFT WING CLIPPED THE RIGHT WING TIP OF ANOTHER ACFT, A
CONTINENTAL AIRLINES COA312, A BOEING 757, THAT WAS BEING TOWED. NO
INJURIES WERE REPORTED, THE DHL403 SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE, NEWARK, NJ
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: WIND220 AT 10 VIS10 SCT250 19/M08 A2987
OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Taxi Operation: Air Carrier
Departed: NEWARK, NJ Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: FRANKFORT, GERMANY Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:
FAA FSDO: TETERBORO, NJ (EA25) Entry date: 11/01/2006
Follow every taxi line? So it is that simple? This is why so much 'aviation theory' can not be applied directly to real world flight operations.
If we followed the taxi line to two or three of our Newark gates, we would easily smash our left wing into either the concrete wall or equipment parked there.
The line might have been painted many years ago for a small plane such as a Metroliner.
Many amateurs believe that aviation theory is followed without question.
If we followed the taxi line to two or three of our Newark gates, we would easily smash our left wing into either the concrete wall or equipment parked there.
The line might have been painted many years ago for a small plane such as a Metroliner.
Many amateurs believe that aviation theory is followed without question.
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Just returned from KEWR.
Taxiied in and out of this cul de sac in a B777.
The line is a double curve which obviously means that one cannot accurately determine the clearance. Plus you get "wingtip growth" on swept wing a/c. Very uncomfortable when you cannot see the wingtip - although even on those a/c where one can see the angle and distance makes judgement difficult.
Newark ground crew are generally poorly trained temporary staff who use a unique set of hand signals; confusing!!
Hard to believe anyone could accidentally land on taxiway Z which is not the same as the parallel emergency runway at Lgw
Taxiied in and out of this cul de sac in a B777.
The line is a double curve which obviously means that one cannot accurately determine the clearance. Plus you get "wingtip growth" on swept wing a/c. Very uncomfortable when you cannot see the wingtip - although even on those a/c where one can see the angle and distance makes judgement difficult.
Newark ground crew are generally poorly trained temporary staff who use a unique set of hand signals; confusing!!
Hard to believe anyone could accidentally land on taxiway Z which is not the same as the parallel emergency runway at Lgw
As a regular user of EWR I agree with Blu Riband that the standard of ground crew there is very low. We often have discussions on the flight deck while being marshalled onto the stands there about what the hell the guy with the wands actually wants. On one accasion I stopped due to the confusion and the guy threw his wands over his head and walked off!
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Just as update, the CO 757 is still in a hangar with an estimated $1,000,000+ worth of damage and it will be a while before it is returned to the fleet.
The LH 744 is still sitting at the north end of the field, near the Kalita cargo area, just off the infamous Taxiway Z.
The LH 744 is still sitting at the north end of the field, near the Kalita cargo area, just off the infamous Taxiway Z.
Airliner 747: Whether those comments were directed at mine or not, they seem a bit harsh and premature. We could all benefit from the advice of any highly-experienced, humble, modest (ansprakslos person) pilot, who is well aware of the need to keep ego totally separate from a flightdeck or safety discussion. Our DC-9s are never prohibited from any of our gates. Such limitations are not written for us or for our A-320 and 757 Captains who taxi into EWR, via taxiways D, B and 'RC'. The fool is the person who runs the aircraft into another hard object.
As DC-9 FO for ten years then 757 for three years as FO, I never saw our Captains follow a taxi line such as into the last two gates on concourse B at Newark, and this includes other airports, not just there, but never too close to other aircraft or ground equipment at DCA and LGA etc.
For the last seven years into EWR as Captain, I've always asked the FO whether the taxi line looked too close to the wall. They all say yep. Anytime they keep me from making a mistake, to the two of them, I said "taks a mycka!" What people don't know is that lots of our ground equipment is stored between the high metal wall and the taxi line. Gate B-40 is at the clockwise end of the parking ramp, and easily visible from windows by the 'WorldClub' in B concourse. Ask any Delta pilot. They use the same round terminal.
For the youngsters out there, Our Line Check Airmen (and even the Simulator Check Airmen ) have always told us to never let book knowledge in SMAC, SOPA override our judgement and common sense, or what we see in the taxi and flood lights. One recognizes a good bit after 20 years going into the same dozens of airports between OMA, LAN, BOS and MIA, whether we fly 3 legs per day, or 7 in an old jet with no automation and 2 pilots.
Our Check Airmen, local Chief Pilots and company CPs expect us to let caution be the determining factor-not books. To paraphrase a chapter title of late, great Ernest Gann ("Fate is the Hunter"), "Rule Books Are Made Of Paper...". This does not mean that they are disregarded. This point is often subtle and willingly overlooked on Pprune.
Before the Preflight Checklist is read, I've always asked FOs (first time working together) to help both of us keep away from any Chief Pilot office, especially the Big One up in the Frozen 'lutefisk' Tundra.
Ironically, even the two Swedish FOs (one is a DC-9 simulator FO Instructor-and good-looking
) I worked with never suggested getting too close to another aircraft, ground equipment or a metal blast wall etc. Anyone staying on that line the whole way is a fool. Just ask or pilots.
In order to enlighten my foreign Pprune pals about our wonderful 'friends' at the FAA, they supervises paper documents and regulations, not safety. Research the old cost/benefit formula. How many dead bodies will result if we do not force the airlines to install smoke detectors, etc? Cehck the ATR-42 scandal years ago (Roselawn, Indiana" American Eagle...what they FAA knew about, but never told Eagle or CO Express...until coffins were put into 'tiefe Graben'). Some foreign pilots' lack of knowledge about our FAA's less-than-serious enforcement of required airport markings, storage location for ground equipment is quite comical, and the very handicapped ability of pilots at many companies to operate according to the FARs. "Engine fire? We must avoid saying THAT on the radio, if at all possible..." The responsibility for markings and where ground equipment is parked, is diluted by the various "Airport Authorities". To the brand-new pilots, that is what taxi and ground flood lights are for.
If anyone assumes that the FAA always backs up pilots when they declare an emergency for a Learjet engine failure at FL350, I will put them in contact with former C.K pilots and many others, including an 'exotic' FO at Airtran who was required to break so many rules in a four-engine recip flying freight, Falcon or Lear (allegedly violating regs in order to keep his job as Captain) that it was most fascinating over a beer on a layover. He is from almost the exact same latitude and has flown several types of flygplan, at least over in AmiLand.
Adjo.
As DC-9 FO for ten years then 757 for three years as FO, I never saw our Captains follow a taxi line such as into the last two gates on concourse B at Newark, and this includes other airports, not just there, but never too close to other aircraft or ground equipment at DCA and LGA etc.
For the last seven years into EWR as Captain, I've always asked the FO whether the taxi line looked too close to the wall. They all say yep. Anytime they keep me from making a mistake, to the two of them, I said "taks a mycka!" What people don't know is that lots of our ground equipment is stored between the high metal wall and the taxi line. Gate B-40 is at the clockwise end of the parking ramp, and easily visible from windows by the 'WorldClub' in B concourse. Ask any Delta pilot. They use the same round terminal.
For the youngsters out there, Our Line Check Airmen (and even the Simulator Check Airmen ) have always told us to never let book knowledge in SMAC, SOPA override our judgement and common sense, or what we see in the taxi and flood lights. One recognizes a good bit after 20 years going into the same dozens of airports between OMA, LAN, BOS and MIA, whether we fly 3 legs per day, or 7 in an old jet with no automation and 2 pilots.
Our Check Airmen, local Chief Pilots and company CPs expect us to let caution be the determining factor-not books. To paraphrase a chapter title of late, great Ernest Gann ("Fate is the Hunter"), "Rule Books Are Made Of Paper...". This does not mean that they are disregarded. This point is often subtle and willingly overlooked on Pprune.
Before the Preflight Checklist is read, I've always asked FOs (first time working together) to help both of us keep away from any Chief Pilot office, especially the Big One up in the Frozen 'lutefisk' Tundra.
Ironically, even the two Swedish FOs (one is a DC-9 simulator FO Instructor-and good-looking
) I worked with never suggested getting too close to another aircraft, ground equipment or a metal blast wall etc. Anyone staying on that line the whole way is a fool. Just ask or pilots.In order to enlighten my foreign Pprune pals about our wonderful 'friends' at the FAA, they supervises paper documents and regulations, not safety. Research the old cost/benefit formula. How many dead bodies will result if we do not force the airlines to install smoke detectors, etc? Cehck the ATR-42 scandal years ago (Roselawn, Indiana" American Eagle...what they FAA knew about, but never told Eagle or CO Express...until coffins were put into 'tiefe Graben'). Some foreign pilots' lack of knowledge about our FAA's less-than-serious enforcement of required airport markings, storage location for ground equipment is quite comical, and the very handicapped ability of pilots at many companies to operate according to the FARs. "Engine fire? We must avoid saying THAT on the radio, if at all possible..." The responsibility for markings and where ground equipment is parked, is diluted by the various "Airport Authorities". To the brand-new pilots, that is what taxi and ground flood lights are for.
If anyone assumes that the FAA always backs up pilots when they declare an emergency for a Learjet engine failure at FL350, I will put them in contact with former C.K pilots and many others, including an 'exotic' FO at Airtran who was required to break so many rules in a four-engine recip flying freight, Falcon or Lear (allegedly violating regs in order to keep his job as Captain) that it was most fascinating over a beer on a layover. He is from almost the exact same latitude and has flown several types of flygplan, at least over in AmiLand.
Adjo.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 12th Nov 2006 at 08:21.
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ignition override
(by the way, is your name one of the old first commands after an engine failure in one of my favorite planes?)
I tend to agree with you about the FAA and would add how Canadians knew about problems with F28's in icing conditions and the FAA didn't bother to let us know in time to prevent a crash at lga.
And I have seen some odd taxi lines too...and sometimes you just have to stop and have a "wing walker" to make sure your wing will clear all those improperly stored bits and pieces around the airport.
I am reminded of our brothers at the railroad...trains on seperate tracks are not supposed to hit each other as they go past each other...but they do under certain bizare circumstances like speed, wind and the like.
(by the way, is your name one of the old first commands after an engine failure in one of my favorite planes?)
I tend to agree with you about the FAA and would add how Canadians knew about problems with F28's in icing conditions and the FAA didn't bother to let us know in time to prevent a crash at lga.
And I have seen some odd taxi lines too...and sometimes you just have to stop and have a "wing walker" to make sure your wing will clear all those improperly stored bits and pieces around the airport.
I am reminded of our brothers at the railroad...trains on seperate tracks are not supposed to hit each other as they go past each other...but they do under certain bizare circumstances like speed, wind and the like.
