BMI waiting to see if BA/VS give up transatlantic slots...
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BMI waiting to see if BA/VS give up transatlantic slots...
BMI is planning to a appeal to the EU Commission for Competition (again)if BA and VS give up their right to Transatlantic slots under the use it or lose it principle.
With rationalisation in the industry underway and VS teetering on the brink of significantly reducing the number of US cities served, BMI appear to be in pole position to eventaully get designation as a UK carrier operating from EGLL - US.
With rationalisation in the industry underway and VS teetering on the brink of significantly reducing the number of US cities served, BMI appear to be in pole position to eventaully get designation as a UK carrier operating from EGLL - US.
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... and of course if they do, it's "sayonara MAN; hello LHR!" for their A330s.
That said, I heard whispers at last week's Routes conference that things weren't so hot for BD either... Hope not, as Mike Bishop has put together a fairly decent little operation - though I still say that it was a bad idea to go two class on their European routes!
That said, I heard whispers at last week's Routes conference that things weren't so hot for BD either... Hope not, as Mike Bishop has put together a fairly decent little operation - though I still say that it was a bad idea to go two class on their European routes!
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Sorry Guv, some time ago, the infamous Manchester Evening News had this story:
Ringway 'won't lose out to Heathrow'
BOSSES at the UK’s second biggest airline have moved to quash fears Manchester will lose out if Heathrow is finally opened up to other transatlantic carriers.
James Hogan, chief operating officer of the newly re-branded bmi british midland airline, says Ringway is actually likely to benefit if bmi is able to break into the UK’s most lucrative US flights market.
And airline chairman and owner Sir Michael Bishop says Ringway could even fulfil ambitions in overtaking Gatwick, but said it would never be a replacement to Heathrow.
UK and US officials have held critical talks about scrapping a treaty that limits flights between Heathrow, the world’s busiest international airport, and the US to four carriers - British Airways and Virgin Atlantic in the UK and United and American Airlines in the US.
The mood at last week’s meeting was said to be ‘‘positive and constructive’’ although none of bilateral issues separating the two sides have been resolved. Talks will resume in the autumn.
At the time Virgin was given access to Heathrow, bmi - which is the second biggest operator out of Heathrow (based on its European flights) - was not in a position to operate US services. Now it is and its bosses - backed by other US and UK airlines - are waging war on the agreement which prevents ‘‘open skies’’ and a fair playing field.
Confined to European and other non-US routes from Heathrow, bmi has just launched direct flights to Washington and Chicago from Ringway in what has been hailed as a major boost to the north west.
The Greater Manchester region has one of the country’s highest concentrations of American employers with 42 per cent of its overseas players being from North America.
Mr Hogan ruled out any withdrawal of services from Manchester in favour of Heathrow, saying: ‘‘Our initial plan was always to operate out of both Heathrow and Manchester, a dual base strategy.
‘‘Our commitments are to bring choice and competition but also, because we have a strong regional network, to supporting the regions of England.
‘‘We have launched out of Manchester into Washington and Chicago and to date the load factors are 75 per cent between Manchester and Washington and 80 per cent in Chicago. The cargo carrying has also started well, which also means we are generating more revenue.
‘‘The Manchester region is our business capital and when you consider that there are so many American businesses in the north of England these services are needed.’’
BOSSES at the UK’s second biggest airline have moved to quash fears Manchester will lose out if Heathrow is finally opened up to other transatlantic carriers.
James Hogan, chief operating officer of the newly re-branded bmi british midland airline, says Ringway is actually likely to benefit if bmi is able to break into the UK’s most lucrative US flights market.
And airline chairman and owner Sir Michael Bishop says Ringway could even fulfil ambitions in overtaking Gatwick, but said it would never be a replacement to Heathrow.
UK and US officials have held critical talks about scrapping a treaty that limits flights between Heathrow, the world’s busiest international airport, and the US to four carriers - British Airways and Virgin Atlantic in the UK and United and American Airlines in the US.
The mood at last week’s meeting was said to be ‘‘positive and constructive’’ although none of bilateral issues separating the two sides have been resolved. Talks will resume in the autumn.
At the time Virgin was given access to Heathrow, bmi - which is the second biggest operator out of Heathrow (based on its European flights) - was not in a position to operate US services. Now it is and its bosses - backed by other US and UK airlines - are waging war on the agreement which prevents ‘‘open skies’’ and a fair playing field.
Confined to European and other non-US routes from Heathrow, bmi has just launched direct flights to Washington and Chicago from Ringway in what has been hailed as a major boost to the north west.
The Greater Manchester region has one of the country’s highest concentrations of American employers with 42 per cent of its overseas players being from North America.
Mr Hogan ruled out any withdrawal of services from Manchester in favour of Heathrow, saying: ‘‘Our initial plan was always to operate out of both Heathrow and Manchester, a dual base strategy.
‘‘Our commitments are to bring choice and competition but also, because we have a strong regional network, to supporting the regions of England.
‘‘We have launched out of Manchester into Washington and Chicago and to date the load factors are 75 per cent between Manchester and Washington and 80 per cent in Chicago. The cargo carrying has also started well, which also means we are generating more revenue.
‘‘The Manchester region is our business capital and when you consider that there are so many American businesses in the north of England these services are needed.’’
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Can BMI continue ex MAN with the MASSIVE load of 30 on the Washington Route over the weekend.
I think not. Latest tales, BMI will pull off ORD route this winter. Also codeshare with AC on the YYZ???
Think EGLL calling if its going to be a success.
I think not. Latest tales, BMI will pull off ORD route this winter. Also codeshare with AC on the YYZ???
Think EGLL calling if its going to be a success.
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Thin Controller
30 looks pretty good compared to another UK airline which had the grand total of 8, yes EIGHT, on a B744 LHR-JFK last weekend.
How people can possibly make an assumption on a route with the snapshot of one day's load is beyond me.
Advance bookings are holding up remarkably well with less than 1% cancelling.
One Sixty
30 looks pretty good compared to another UK airline which had the grand total of 8, yes EIGHT, on a B744 LHR-JFK last weekend.
How people can possibly make an assumption on a route with the snapshot of one day's load is beyond me.
Advance bookings are holding up remarkably well with less than 1% cancelling.
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Ringwayman
It's true that bmi did state that access to LHR would not signal the end of the transatlantics from MAN. However, the US aviation market changed with the tragedy of 11 Sept and I would not be surprised if bmi u-turned on that, should LHR open it's gates to them. It would be sad as I am all for US flights from regional airports as we don't all live and work in London but the costs of running the MAN services may become too much to bear.
I hope it doesn't.
It's true that bmi did state that access to LHR would not signal the end of the transatlantics from MAN. However, the US aviation market changed with the tragedy of 11 Sept and I would not be surprised if bmi u-turned on that, should LHR open it's gates to them. It would be sad as I am all for US flights from regional airports as we don't all live and work in London but the costs of running the MAN services may become too much to bear.
I hope it doesn't.
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Speedbird.... - Government protection of slots does not currently exist at EGLL - use them 80% of the time or lose them - anything else you've been told is incorrect. I'm sure that BA will try to protect them - but watch out for the competitors.
VS is pulling down service across the Atlantic at a significant rate - more slots. And the US carriers are doing the same - more slots.
VS is pulling down service across the Atlantic at a significant rate - more slots. And the US carriers are doing the same - more slots.
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Haulin' Trash, it appears VS are killing thier LGW services and moving everything to LHR, One of the pilots on my flight today said the ATH slot will be taken over by a MCO. I am worried that VS will limit thier growth options if they kill or downgrade further their LGW services. Maybe Tricky Dicky is looking at the star alliance with fresh eyes. code share with UA and BD with growth to Asia ? The world is set for change right now
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Want to BET that within the next few weeks, Bmi will dump the ORD route and just do Washington ?- The loads on both have been more than dissapointing since they started and they WILL move from MAN to LHR if the latter opens up.
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All these sample snap-shot loads... my last bmi ord-man late last week had 180 pax! Although was booked to 220.
Some are good some are bad, but then that happens when u run a regular start-up service... the future's blue!!
Some are good some are bad, but then that happens when u run a regular start-up service... the future's blue!!
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Haulin' trash..... you seem to speak it too! As if BD is going to expand across the Atlantic when all others are taking such despirate measures to cut. UA and AA for example have both dropped 2 ORDs and VS is pulling out because of low loads. Sounds a very good idea to me to be expanding.....NOT!
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Ex NAV
Name your stake, and I'll double it against you
It may have gone without being noticed, but, touchwood, MAN has not had a single transatlantic route cut yet.
BMI's ORD route has actually been trouncing AA on loads all summer and is comfortably in profit.
The IAD has shown poorer loads, but before Sept 11th it was carrying good freight loads, plus more high yield punters in "The Biz."
CO have swapped equipment on the EWR in Oct from a 772 to a 762, changing again to a 764 for 4 weeks before reverting back to a 772 for December. I've tried 4 different days for travel to EWR in Oct and the damn thing is full !
I've said before, MAN is less reliant on US originating business travellers, so at the moment, loads on all carriers have held up remarkably well,especially now that the immediate knee-jerk cancellations have all but dried up.
A bit of good news in what has been a very depressing and worrying month for all.
One Sixty
Name your stake, and I'll double it against you
It may have gone without being noticed, but, touchwood, MAN has not had a single transatlantic route cut yet.
BMI's ORD route has actually been trouncing AA on loads all summer and is comfortably in profit.
The IAD has shown poorer loads, but before Sept 11th it was carrying good freight loads, plus more high yield punters in "The Biz."
CO have swapped equipment on the EWR in Oct from a 772 to a 762, changing again to a 764 for 4 weeks before reverting back to a 772 for December. I've tried 4 different days for travel to EWR in Oct and the damn thing is full !
I've said before, MAN is less reliant on US originating business travellers, so at the moment, loads on all carriers have held up remarkably well,especially now that the immediate knee-jerk cancellations have all but dried up.
A bit of good news in what has been a very depressing and worrying month for all.
One Sixty
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Ex Nav, what odds are you giving? Hardly none of us expect anything to happen for sure unless you have a crystal ball. What happens to the route if LHR goes out of action? That will be a big DUMP. Why are you anti MAN or am I wrong as usual?
Just one last question. Are you really a GAMBLING man? Please give me the real odds. I'm feeling lucky. Love to have some real facts
Dan
Nose up, flaps out, don't let the anti MAN's (& Telebans (or EX NAVs)) get you down
Man you are lost! I hope you can repostition[*]null
Just one last question. Are you really a GAMBLING man? Please give me the real odds. I'm feeling lucky. Love to have some real facts
Dan
Nose up, flaps out, don't let the anti MAN's (& Telebans (or EX NAVs)) get you down
Man you are lost! I hope you can repostition[*]null
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Just out of interest, here's what the Manchester Evening News has today:
US Airlines stay loyal to Ringway
AMERICAN airline operators are staying loyal to Manchester Airport - despite sweeping cuts after the terrorist attacks.
Four key US carriers today gave Ringway a massive boost by pledging to keep transatlantic services to New York, Chicago, Atlanta and Philadelphia.
Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic, which plans to slash 1200 jobs nationwide, also said it ''did not expect'' any cuts to affect its holiday flights to Florida from Manchester.
A cloud still hangs over British Airways jobs and services at Ringway, but it is understood there are no plans to scrap the airline's Manchester route to New York.
So far, the airport has not lost any flights following the American tragedy, despite hundreds being axed across America and Europe.
American Airlines, which operates daily to Chicago, said Manchester would not be affected - despite scrapping 20,000 jobs and cutting the Chicago route from Birmingham, Milan and Stockholm.
Delta (Atlanta), Continental (New York) and US Airways (Philadelphia) - forced to make massive cuts across the globe - also plan to maintain Ringway operations.
The US backing came today as budget Irish carrier Ryanair revealed bookings for its Manchester-Dublin flights had surged by 50 per cent after 30,000 tickets were offered at £9.99.
The airline, which cut prices to win back worried passengers, has almost filled its Ringway jets for October and plans to increase the capacity of two aircraft to meet demand.
Spokesman Tim Jeans said 22,000 tickets were sold in less than a week.
''The response from Manchester has been incredible,'' he said. ''People are prepared to fly if the price is right and passengers are reassured by all the extra security.''
EasyJet, which initially saw a 20 per cent fall in business, also said its bookings across Europe from Liverpool Airport ''were back to normal'' following a promotion with 150,000 cut-price seats.
Spokesman Ruth Start said: ''Business is booming and we plan to press ahead with our long-term expansion plans.''
British Airways, which has already announced it will axe 120 engineering jobs and close its £7m maintenance hangar at Ringway in March, is expected to reveal the impact of further cuts in Manchester within days.
bmi british midland, which employs 480 people at Ringway, is half-filling its new jets to Washington and Chicago and is ''monitoring'' the situation.
A spokesman said: ''British Midland has made a firm commitment to Manchester and services are holding up well - but nothing is definite and we are continuing a business review.''
Aer Lingus, which has also reduced services, said ''there were no current plans'' to cut Manchester-Dublin flights.
More than 500,000 people travel to America from Ringway every year.
AMERICAN airline operators are staying loyal to Manchester Airport - despite sweeping cuts after the terrorist attacks.
Four key US carriers today gave Ringway a massive boost by pledging to keep transatlantic services to New York, Chicago, Atlanta and Philadelphia.
Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic, which plans to slash 1200 jobs nationwide, also said it ''did not expect'' any cuts to affect its holiday flights to Florida from Manchester.
A cloud still hangs over British Airways jobs and services at Ringway, but it is understood there are no plans to scrap the airline's Manchester route to New York.
So far, the airport has not lost any flights following the American tragedy, despite hundreds being axed across America and Europe.
American Airlines, which operates daily to Chicago, said Manchester would not be affected - despite scrapping 20,000 jobs and cutting the Chicago route from Birmingham, Milan and Stockholm.
Delta (Atlanta), Continental (New York) and US Airways (Philadelphia) - forced to make massive cuts across the globe - also plan to maintain Ringway operations.
The US backing came today as budget Irish carrier Ryanair revealed bookings for its Manchester-Dublin flights had surged by 50 per cent after 30,000 tickets were offered at £9.99.
The airline, which cut prices to win back worried passengers, has almost filled its Ringway jets for October and plans to increase the capacity of two aircraft to meet demand.
Spokesman Tim Jeans said 22,000 tickets were sold in less than a week.
''The response from Manchester has been incredible,'' he said. ''People are prepared to fly if the price is right and passengers are reassured by all the extra security.''
EasyJet, which initially saw a 20 per cent fall in business, also said its bookings across Europe from Liverpool Airport ''were back to normal'' following a promotion with 150,000 cut-price seats.
Spokesman Ruth Start said: ''Business is booming and we plan to press ahead with our long-term expansion plans.''
British Airways, which has already announced it will axe 120 engineering jobs and close its £7m maintenance hangar at Ringway in March, is expected to reveal the impact of further cuts in Manchester within days.
bmi british midland, which employs 480 people at Ringway, is half-filling its new jets to Washington and Chicago and is ''monitoring'' the situation.
A spokesman said: ''British Midland has made a firm commitment to Manchester and services are holding up well - but nothing is definite and we are continuing a business review.''
Aer Lingus, which has also reduced services, said ''there were no current plans'' to cut Manchester-Dublin flights.
More than 500,000 people travel to America from Ringway every year.
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It seems ludicrous for BA to expect that simply because of its problems, slots should somehow be kept for it; from a national economic point of view, air transport needs to be allowed to develop and if other airlines - be it bmi at LHR or EZY at LGW - are able to make use of slots, then they should be allowed to; that said, it seems BA is trying to put its best foot forward, moving as many routes as it can get away with from LGW to LHR.
As far as bmi is concerned, notwithstanding the success of its MAN operations, one has to ask if it is really wise to enter into the transatlantic market from LHR. Its "natural" first choices, ORD and IAD, are already operated by STAR partner UAL and it would be an unknown start-up in any other markets, adding greatly to the cost of opening a new operation.
Should it not seek some accommodation with VS, feeding into its operation; it has the short haul operation and its unlikely its service quality (as good as it is) could equal VS's. Two smaller UK carriers cutting each other's throats may only benefit BA in the long run. There are quite a few short haul routes - Jersey being a prime example - which would seem to be a far better use of slots.
As far as bmi is concerned, notwithstanding the success of its MAN operations, one has to ask if it is really wise to enter into the transatlantic market from LHR. Its "natural" first choices, ORD and IAD, are already operated by STAR partner UAL and it would be an unknown start-up in any other markets, adding greatly to the cost of opening a new operation.
Should it not seek some accommodation with VS, feeding into its operation; it has the short haul operation and its unlikely its service quality (as good as it is) could equal VS's. Two smaller UK carriers cutting each other's throats may only benefit BA in the long run. There are quite a few short haul routes - Jersey being a prime example - which would seem to be a far better use of slots.